CNN Lou Dobbs Tonight - Transcript

CNN Lou Dobbs Tonight - Transcript
Monday, May 23, 2005

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DOBBS: The battle over federal funding for embryonic stem cell research is being waged on Capitol Hill this week. A new CNN/"USA Today" Gallup poll released this hour shows just how contested this issue is in the country.

When asked what the government should do about federal funding for embryonic stem cell research, 53 percent of the respondents said there should be no restrictions or an easing of restrictions; 43 percent said the restrictions should remain the same or funding should be stopped altogether.

Congresswoman Diana DeGette and Congressman Mike Castle are co- sponsors of a bill in the House to lift President Bush's ban on the use of federal dollars to fund embryonic stem cell research. President Bush said he would veto any bill that expands public funding for embryonic research. It would be the first veto of his presidency.

Joining me now from Capitol Hill are Congresswoman Diana DeGette and Congressman Mike Castle. They say embryonic stem cell research is critical to advance science that may help cure disease. Congressman Dave Weldon and Congressman Bart Stupak want to kill the DeGette- Castle legislation. They say embryonic stem cell research has not proven anything yet, and taxpayers should not be forced to fund what they call the destruction of human embryos.

Congressmen and women-or woman I should say-good to have you with us.

REP. DIANA DEGETTE (D), COLORADO: Great being here.

DOBBS: Let me start with you, Congresswoman DeGette. Why is it important? There is private financing for embryonic stem cell research, there is research going on around the country. Why is it so important in your mind, and you, Congressman Castle, to move forward with this legislation?

DEGETTE: Embryonic stem cell research holds tremendous promise for curing diseases that affect tens of millions of Americans-diabetes, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's.

In 2001, the president issued an executive order that severely limited this research, and not only has the federal role been greatly limited, which has caused the research to be held back, but also we don't have federal ethical standards.

What Mike Castle and I want to do, we want to allow couples who are already going through in vitro fertilization to donate the embryos which are part of that technique but left over and would be thrown away. We think if those couples agree, if they consent to having them be used for research, then the majority of Americans, as we saw in your poll, think that that should be appropriate. And the promise of embryonic stem cell research is great for millions of Americans.

DOBBS: Congressman Weldon, you don't agree with that. In point of fact, you strongly object because embryonic stem cell research has really not been applied for human disease, is that your position? REP. DAVE WELDON ®, FLORIDA: Well, absolutely. I'm a physician. I still see patients. I have been practicing medicine for 25 years. As a matter of fact, I typically grab some medical journals and read them on the plane as I fly here to Washington. Here's one of them that I read on the flight up here. Nice article about cord blood stem cells treating a very bad pediatric condition. I have yet to see an article on embryonic stem cells.

And I hired a Ph.D researcher to work in my office and comb not the medical literature, but the rat and mouse literature, and they don't really even have a good model of treating an animal disease with embryonic stem cells.

And I think this is really a lot of hype, in my opinion, and most of the promise is in adult and cord blood stem cells.

DOBBS: Congressman Castle, I want you, if you would, to respond to Congressman Weldon, but first, if we could put up a quote from President Bush expressing his strong opposition, saying "I am a strong supporter of adult stem cell research, of course. But I made it very clear to the Congress that the use of federal money, taxpayers' money, to promote science which destroys life in order to save life-I'm against that."

First, you're breaking with your president, the same party, and actually going strongly against his beliefs and the majority of the members in the House and their position. Why?

REP. MIKE CASTLE (R), DELAWARE: Well, hopefully not a majority of members in the House, but just the Republican members.

DOBBS: Well, the Republican members I should have said.

CASTLE: But here's why, Lou. There's 110 million people out there who are suffering from diseases that could be helped by embryonic stem cell research. They have only been around for about six years in the discovery stage. Adult stem cells have been around for about 30 years.

They do solve some things, but of the 15 diseases that kill the most Americans, it can only apply to one, really blood type diseases, if you will.

Embryonic stem cell research, by the word of all the scientists, researchers out there, has tremendous promise in-to move forward to be able to prevent diseases, to be able to cure diseases potentially.

And sure, it's potential. And sure, it's research. But we have $28 billion a year going to the NIH right now. And if we can take that money and we can really make this work, as the hope is, think of all the people out there who might have a greater opportunity in life.

To me, there's absolutely no question whatsoever about what we should be doing. And I would agree that we haven't advanced it as far as we will at some point in the future, but in terms of the number of years and the advances which have been made, it's a pretty good track record.

So this is the right thing to do. And I would hope that we can start it tomorrow and finish it sometime in the near future.

DOBBS: Congressman Stupak, as Congressman Castle says, it begins tomorrow. Why are you fighting so hard against this? And do you accept what Congressman Castle has just said?

REP. BART STUPAK (D), MICHIGAN: No, I don't accept what Congressman Castle said. There's a lot of research going on on stem cells that is not funded by the federal government. A lot of us believe we should not have the federal government funding research to create life only to destroy life later on.

I think there's a far greater ethical value issue that we have to ask here. Do we, in fact, create human life, which you do through embryonic stem cells, only to manipulate it, to research it? We think not. We think very strongly about that. And that's an issue that we should have a debate on. Unfortunately, tomorrow's debate will be limited to about just over two hours. But I think as a country, I sat through-and I know Dave and a lot of us went through the cloning legislation. And the hearings we had on that were just excellent about medical ethics, and just who we are as a people, and does the United States want to be a leader in values? And-or are we just going to be a leader in scientific research, no matter what the cost, or what we manipulate to meet our ends?

We think that there's a line you should not cross. Should not create human life merely to destroy it in hope of some research, when you have other valuable areas we should be researching, as Congressman Weldon said, the adult stem cell area.

DOBBS: Congresswoman DeGette, the fact is, after the South Korean announcement, Senator Arlen Specter said just point blank that he is concerned-and this is not obviously meant to encapsulize all of the ethical issues and everything else, but he said, quote, "The United States is being left farther behind every day." Is that your sense of what is at stake here?

DEGETTE: Yes, this research is going on as it is. And no one can deny this research is going on. We need to make sure that the research is open and robust, and that it has strict ethical standards, which is what our bill does.

It's important to remember what this research is. It's embryos which are created already for in vitro fertilization techniques, and which will be thrown away. And many of my pro-life supporters say, is it more ethical to just throw away those embryos, or to allow the patients to donate them for research that could cure diseases that affect tens of millions of Americans?

DOBBS: Congressman Weldon, would you-would you agree with that assessment?

WELDON: Well, the critical issue here is the research involves killing a human embryo. There are no restrictions on private entities funding this research. The state of California is putting tens of millions of dollars into this research-the state of New Jersey, Harvard University. The critical issue here is, you have millions and millions of taxpayers who are pro-life, who object to this kind of research who are being asked to help foot the bill for this and a lot of us in Washington feel that we should not go in this direction, and I feel very, very strongly that this research is going the same way that fetal tissue research went 10 years ago. We had the same debates. A lot of the same people who are getting up advocating for this, make the same bogus claims that fetal tissue research was going to cure everything. If you look at the research, it's highly questionable.

DOBBS: And, Congressman Stupak, the fact is, as Congresswoman DeGette said, those embryos are, simply-become medical waste. Does that in any way mitigate your view about ending life to save life?

STUPAK: No, no, they weren't created to be medical waste. They were created for reproduction, to create human life. That's what they are there for. They were not created, these embryos in the IV clinics, were not created for research or for medical science. They were created for life. You destroyed the very purpose for what it was intended to for.

DOBBS: We're going to have to end right there. We thank you very much and obviously look forward to the debate and the vote. Thank you very much. Congressman Weldon...

WELDON: Thank you.

DOBBS: ...Congressman Castle, Congressman DeGette, Congressman Stupak, thank you very much

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