MSNBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: ISIS
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
And welcome back now to discuss the terror threat and foreign policy challenge that face the country, I'm joined from Jerusalem by Lindsey Graham. He's of course a Republican senator for South Carolina. He's spent the last few days traveling in the Middle East, has visited Saudi Arabia, Qatar, prior to arriving in Israel today.
Senator Graham, welcome back to Meet the Press. And let me start with a basic question that I've been hearing from a lot of folks. Over the last 14 years, the policy of going after these terrorist groups has been to disrupt, dismantle, and destroy. It's George W. Bush's policy, promise, it's been President Obama's. Fourteen years, we've killed a lot of people, but we've not defeated this enemy. Why?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Well, once you liberate a country like Iraq, and you don't have a follow-up force, they fill in the gaps. Syria is a terror state. The civil war in Syria basically broke the country apart. And the only thing I can say is you have to deny the enemy safe haven. Returning from Iraq prematurely was a mistake. Not supporting the Free Syrian Army three or four years ago was a mistake. You've got to stay after these guys.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, Senator, I guess I would just say, are you advocating then more troops in a place like Syria now? More troops potentially, is it Yemen that we need to do? What is the answer now? I know we want to debate about some of these things in the past about Iraq, but what is the answer now?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Well, the answer now is to deny ISIL the safe haven they enjoy in Syria and Iraq because it is a platform to strike the United States. There are more Parises coming until you disrupt this network. There are more terrorist organizations with more safe havens, with more capability to hit the homeland than before 9/11.
The answer is to form a regional coalition, America has to be part of it, go in on the ground, and get these guys out of Syria. The current strategy is failing. Everybody has told us on this trip that if you don't have a no-fly zone, the people we're training, the Free Syrian Army that we're training is going to go back into Syria and get slaughtered by Assad. There's no way to be successful on the ground without neutralizing Assad's air advantage. And so we need a no-fly zone desperately.
CHUCK TODD:
What do you tell the country that's war-weary?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
You need to fight them over there or they're coming back here. It's better to partner than it is to go it alone. You've got to show the ability to stay with it. You try to get partners. The Free Syrian Army would be a good partner. They've been punished pretty hard by Assad and ISIL. It's in our national security interest to deny them a safe haven. And when it comes to Iraq, let's get it right this time.
CHUCK TODD:
The most vicious radical Islamic group might actually be in Nigeria. You didn't bring it up. A lot of people don't bring it up until it's asked.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Right.
CHUCK TODD:
Boko Haram slaughtered thousands in the same week that 17 people were killed in Paris. Should the United States be doing more in Nigeria? Other countries? What's the answer there?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Well, I think, yeah, we should be doing more. But Boko Haram doesn't represent the threat to the homeland in my view that ISIL does and Al Nusra and other groups in Syria and Iraq. But this problem is spreading throughout the world. The next stage of the fight I think is Africa.
But if we could show some resolve in Syria and Iraq and reset the table and go after these guys in Syria and Iraq with success, I think it would change the landscape throughout the world. Success anywhere breeds success everywhere. Failure in any one spot hurts you everywhere. But you're right, 2,000 people were killed in one weekend in Nigeria and the world basically ignored the story.
CHUCK TODD:
Let's move to Iran. Let me play what the president said in pushing back at Congress's attempt to apply more sanctions before the negotiations are done with Iran. Here's what he said:
(BEGIN TAPE)
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA:
My main message to Congress at this point is, just hold your fire. Nobody around the world, least of all the Iranians, doubt my ability to get some additional sanctions pass should these negotiations fail. That's not a hard vote for me to get through Congress.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
Why not wait?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I think we're trying to tell the Iranians that we would like a political negotiation, a diplomatic solution, but please understand in Iran that the Congress is intent on re-apply sanctions, if you walk away from the negotiating table, and if you cheat, I don't think that's a disruptive message.
All we're telling the Iranians, "If you walk away from these negotiations, sanctions will be reapplied. If you cheat, they will be reimposed." But let me just say this. I'm willing to forgo sanctions, Chuck, if the president will take any deal he negotiates and brings it to Congress for our approval. If he thinks sanctions is disruptive to a good outcome, I'm willing to forgo that vote with the understanding that any bill he negotiates will come to the Congress for our approval or disapproval as a check and balance.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to follow up on two other things very quickly. Last week, you said something pretty provocative about the president. You said, "When he left Iraq, he did so based on a campaign promise. He's trying to close Gitmo based on a campaign promise. His campaign promises are getting a lot of people killed." Is that proper rhetoric? You think the president of the United States is getting people killed?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I think his policies are getting people killed. I think sound military advice was given to the president to leave a residual force in Iraq and he turned it down. And as a result, Iraq has collapsed. His entire national security team suggested three or four years ago to create a no-fly zone and train the Free Syrian Army while it mattered.
Almost 300,000 people have been killed in Syria on his watch. Syria, the worst is yet to come. Lebanon and Jordan have closed their borders. Where do the people in Syria, where do they go now? Hell on earth is about to descend upon Syria and it matters to us.
The safe havens in Jordan and Syria and Iraq by ISIL and other terrorist groups are a direct threat to the United States. Letting people out of Gitmo in this environment, I think is irresponsible. So yes, his campaign promises should be adjusted based on reality.
CHUCK TODD:
And final question, John McCain, when he was asked about Mitt Romney running for president, he talked about his illegitimate son running for president, referring to you. Where are you on this? And I hear you're actually polling right now to test your ability to run for president.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
We're not polling, but we set up a testing-the-waters committee under the IRS code that would allow me to look beyond South Carolina as to whether or not a guy like Lindsey Graham has a viable path. But the good news is, I guess I'm in John's will and I can get part of the estate. But I don't know where this will go, but I am definitely going to look at it.
CHUCK TODD:
All right.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I think the world is falling apart and I've been more right than wrong when it comes to foreign policy. But we'll see.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, we'll check with Cindy McCain to see if you're actually in that will as well, anyway. Senator Graham from Jerusalem, stay safe while traveling overseas, sir. Thank you very much. Coming up, why Republicans thought another run by Mitt Romney was a good idea, right up until Romney agreed with them.
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