MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript: Tax Code

Interview

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SCHULTZ: Welcome back to The Ed Show. This is the story for the folks who take a shower after work. President Obama has threaten to veto a bipartisan tax deal which will give corporations a $440 billion breaks over the 10 years while letting key tax credits for working families do what? Expire? Come on.

Lawmakers from both parties have been working to strike a deal on a tax extended package. The current deal would have made expiring corporate tax giveaways permanent. The only corporate tax credit that would be allowed to expire unto the deal is for wind energy. Now the deal would also exclude a permanent expansion of the earned income tax credit and a child tax credit for poor families according to the New York Times.

Republican negotiators excluded those measures as, "Pay back for the President`s executive order on immigration." It`s the same old story.

President Obama does something that Republicans don`t like. Republicans get back at the President at the expense of the working class folks of this country. It`s hard to see how any progressive could get onboard with this deal including our next guest.

Senator Bernie Sanders, independent from Vermont.

Senator this is really the worse nightmare for middle class families on America, isn`t it?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: Ed, this is just another example of the Republicans having their priorities exactly wrong. What they want to do is extend huge tax breaks, runoff the deficit with some of the largest, most profitable corporations in America, at a time when these companies are enjoying record-breaking profits.

And then on the other hand, we have millions of families struggling to keep their heads above water, dependent on the earned income tax credit, the child tax credit, they want to let those very important programs expire. So, we take from the poor, we give to the rich and that is the Republican philosophy.

SCHULTZ: Senator, do you buy into the conversation that this is get back on the President for his Executive Order on Immigration?

SANDERS: Yeah, I think this is part of the general Republican DNA. Their job is to protect the interest of the wealthy and the most powerful corporations in America. And they could care less about low income working families.

SCHULTZ: So the President says that, you know, he`s going to veto this deal. So what happens after that?

SANDERS: Well then we sit and negotiate something that makes sense. The President and is absolutely right to veto this deal. Ed, in 1952 corporations paid about 32 percent of all Federal Tax Revenue. Today, that number is less than 10 percent.

What we need in this country is a tax system that is progressive, that is fair, that says to large profitable corporations, "You can`t stash your money in the Cayman Islands. You have to start paying your fair share of taxes." And also says, for low income working people, "We know you`re struggling and we`re going to give you and you`re kids the support that they need."

SCHULTZ: But Senator if you listen to the right-wing they say that we have the highest corporate tax rates in the world and we`re not competitive and they blame this for the loss of jobs when it comes to out sourcing. I know you`re head is going to explode on this?

SANDERS: I don`t want to shock you. But the Republicans are not exactly
accurate on that. What they are talking about is a nominal tax rate. That is the paper (ph) tax rate. The fact of the matter is, the effective tax rate, what these corporations really pay is a fraction of the nominal tax rate somewhere around 12 percent.

And you got large corporations like General Electric, Verizon and others who pay nothing at all in taxes. In fact we think about one out of four corporations pays nothing in taxes. So our goal must be to have an equitable tax system. And if you`re a large profitable corporation, you know what? You got to pay taxes. You should pay your fair share of taxes.

SCHULTZ: Senator, your thoughts on what Chuck Schumer, the Senator from New York said about where the Democrats should have gone early on in the Obama administration.

SANDERS: Well I don`t think it`s an "either" or "or". It`s not a question of fighting for jobs or fighting for health care. Ed, as you know we`re the only major country on earth does not provide health care to all people as a right. And I think we got to remedy that. And I support a single- payer Medicare rule system.

But also, there is no question that we need to create jobs. And by doing -- by investing for example in our collapsing infrastructure we can create millions of jobs. So it`s not either/or. We should be moving forward in both directions and protecting the interest of working families.

SCHULTZ: And I want to give you an opportunity to comment on the last segment that we had about oil. And the amount of oil that`s on the world market right now and the dropping gas prices in this country. What does this do if anything to Keystone in your opinion?

SANDERS: Well it tells us that you already have -- and this has been the case actually for a number of years. You already have a great deal of oil out on the market. And in some cases because of economies in various countries demand is down. But most importantly on this issue Ed, climate change is real.

The scientific community tells us that we have a limited window of opportunity to transform our energy system away from fossil fuel. We should not be encouraging the development of some of the dirtiest oil in the world.

SCHULTZ: Senator what about the jobs program that you have talked about. Unemployment in the black community is very high. You have focused on that. Is that the key to better race relations in this country?

SANDERS: Ed --

SCHULTZ: I mean the aftermath conversation of Ferguson that`s going on --

SANDERS: Right.

SCHULTZ: -- right now, you believe is connected to jobs?

SANDERS: Absolutely Ed. Look, clearly police brutality, the harassment of young blacks is a terribly serious. But you can`t ignore the fact that African-American youth unemployment today is over 30 percent.

The projections are that a black male born today has a one in three chance to ending up in the criminal justice system. This is totally unacceptable. And what we need to do is create a jobs program for America and for our young people as well. Youth unemployment is over 18 percent in general.

So what we need to do is start investing in rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. Ed, if we invested one-third of the amount of money that the war in Iraq cost us. That was $3 trillion. Put $1 trillion into infrastructure, we can create 13 million decent paying jobs and make our country more productive and efficient. And that is exactly what we should be doing.

SCHULTZ: Give us an update on Bernie Sanders for President.

SANDERS: Well, we`ve been going around the country. I`ve been talking to people. There`s a lot of support out there. The question I have to deal with, Ed, is taking on the billionaire class. It`s not an easy task. And we have to determine whether, in fact, there is the grassroots support in this country for a strong campaign to really transform America and to create the jobs, raise the minimum wage, health care for all people. Is there support? I`m trying to determine that right now.

SCHULTZ: Senator Bernie Sanders, independent from Vermont. Senator, good to have you with us tonight. Thanks so much.

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