MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript: Climate Change

Interview

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Joining me tonight, Senator Shelton Whitehouse of Rhode Island and also with us tonight Jean Kleeb, Executive Director of Bold Nebraska, great to have both of you with us.

Senator, the vote last night, was it important from the standpoint of getting party people on the record about climate change? Your thoughts.

SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, (D) RHODE ISLAND: Yes I think it was an important vote. I think it`s going to be another important vote in January, both demonstrating that the Republican Party will then be more or less completely in towed to the fossil fuel industry. And giving President Obama a chance to veto this measure and force a sensible energy discussion rather than just getting stampeded by a fossil fuel interest.

SCHULTZ: So, I think we all get a sense that the President would veto standalone legislation. But are you -- do you fear Senator that he would use it as a bargaining chip to get something else that he believes the country needs?

WHITEHOUSE: Well, that`s not necessarily a bad thing if the total sum of the deal is actually a very significant reduction in carbon and six million cars worth that Keystone Pipeline will produce and somehow very considerably offset. I think that`s a conversation that we ought to have.

Our goal should ultimately be to reduce carbon if we got a significant carbon fee out of this. If we got absolute clearance on the existing plant rule in return for something. I`m willing to have the President pitch us on a reasonable deal.

What I`m not willing to have him do is take something that`s completely unrelated to climate and trade it away, and send the signal to both the Republicans and the fossil fuel industry that it`s now giving them direction that he is ready to be rolled on this issue because they will not backed down once they feel it`s rolling.

They will just keep rolling him and rolling him and rolling him.

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SCHULTZ: Senator Whitehouse, you unveiled new carbon fee legislation today, would this be a model for coming to a deal on Keystone?

WHITEHOUSE: I don`t know about coming to a deal on Keystone. Certainly, a $40 per ton carbon fee that was 100 percent return to the American people through rebates against their payroll taxes, through corporate tax reductions, through increases to social security and another devices. We (ph) saw that all of the money went back to the American people.

I think we`d have a -- actually explosive effect on our economy. We`ve suddenly be taxing something that we don`t want which is carbon pollution. We`d be freeing up income to our corporate sector and to individuals. It would explode innovation and research in green energy which is a huge jobs growth area.

I think that there`s a lot for Republican to liking this in terms of
economic development. In terms of lower taxes and they`ve got to realize
that they can`t just keep goofing off...

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

WHITEHOUSE: ... about carbon pollution. That`s just unacceptable. They know it.

SCHULTZ: Senator, you`re the only representative, the only senator from the United State Senate that went to Nebraska to meet with people on the ground. If you come to a deal or if the Democrats come to a deal that would go along with the President given up Keystone for some other issues, it still doesn`t change the risk that the Aquifer would be faced if there were a leak and pipelines do leak. Does a deal outweigh that risk?

WHITEHOUSE: It would have to be one hell of a deal because I really admire Jean and what she and her group have done. They`re up against very powerful and very wealthy interest and they have fought very hard and they fought fair and they fought smart. And I think the President should listen to them and the best solution would indeed be to get rid of this pipeline.

But, if you can trade it for a full on cap and trade, for full on carbon fee, for a solution to our carbon problem and to put this fight behind us and move on and grow the economy that`s something that anybody would have to take a serious look at.

SCHULTZ: Jean Kleeb, I`ll give you the final word on that.

KLEEB: I just think if you expand tar sands and I know Senator Whitehouse knows this, and I know he deeply believes it. If you expand tar sands, what the Keystone XL would do, you`re going to expand the carbon pollution. And so there`s no deal on a table for our family`s livelihood.

And there is no deal on table that is going to erase the damage that would do to people`s livelihoods and the culture that we deeply hold on our farms, in our ranches, and our tribal communities. And so there is no deal for Keystone XL. None.

SCHULTZ: Jean Kleeb, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, good to have you with us tonight both of you.

WHITEHOUSE: Thank you Ed.

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