CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Islamic State

Interview

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We're joined by Senator Bernie Sanders.

He's an independent United States senator from Vermont, a possible 2016 presidential candidate.

Senator, thanks -- thanks very much for joining us.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: My pleasure.

BLITZER: We'll talk politics a bit later.

Are you with the president as far as his ISIS strategy in Iraq and Syria has unfolded?

SANDERS: I tell you, Wolf, I've got a lot of concerns. I think this is an enormously complicated issue. I do not agree with those critics of the president who say he was waiting too long.

You know, Bush and Cheney had a strategy for Iraq and they were forceful and they were bold and they committed the worst foreign policy blunder in the history of the United States.

So on an issue this complicated, we've got to think it through.

ISIS clearly is a brutal, dangerous organization. We all agree that it has got to be defeated. Here is my concern. My concern is that the United States gets involved in a quagmire, in a never-ending war, that it is the United States of America, our soldiers, our taxpayers who are defending the royal family of Saudi Arabia, who are worth hundreds of billions of dollars.

Now, if this is such a crisis to the region, why are -- the Saudis have a big air force, you know?

They've got a lot of F-16s.

Why aren't they involved?

Why isn't Kuwait?

You remember Kuwait?

We kind of forget Kuwait. We went to war to put the Kuwaiti government back.

Where are they?

Where are all the billionaires in Qatar?

So we need -- if these guys in the region think that ISIS is such a great threat, they've got to put some skin in the game. I don't see that yet.

BLITZER: Yes, I don't see the Saudi Arabian Air Force with -- for example, which has a lot of U.S.-made F-15s and F-16s. I don't see them launching any airstrikes against ISIS.

SANDERS: That's right. Because they -- they're very happy to have us do their work. So I think they have got to get their hands a little bit dirty in this conflict.

BLITZER: You voted against going to war in 2003 agreed Saddam Hussein. And you say that's the biggest foreign policy disaster in U.S. history.

SANDERS: Well, I...

BLITZER: Some people...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: -- might say the Vietnam War was a big foreign policy...

SANDERS: Well, we could argue...

BLITZER: -- disaster, as well.

SANDERS: -- that was another one. But, clearly, what my point was, you can't criticize the president for trying to think this one through. Bush and Cheney were forceful, they were direct, and it turned out to be a major blunder, of which we are suffering today.

BLITZER: The president wants you to vote for half a billion dollars, as early as the next few days, to fund Syrian -- moderate Syrian rebels opposed to the Bashar al-Assad regime for training and arming them.

SANDERS: Right.

BLITZER: Will you vote yea or nay?

SANDERS: Well, here's my problem. My problem is in a CR, so I vote against it, you vote...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: -- it's a stopgap continuing resolution...

SANDERS: -- so it becomes are you voting for Ebola, money for...

BLITZER: Let's say it were a separate half a billion -- $500

billion funding appropriation.

SANDERS: I'll work -- I'm looking at this issue really hard. At this point, I'm leaning no.

BLITZER: You're leaning to vote against it?

SANDERS: Yes.

BLITZER: What about authorizing a formal vote that would give the president authorization to go to war against ISIS?

SANDERS: Everything is in the language. You can't talk in a general sense here. I support, have and do support the president using airstrikes. I think he has the right to do it. I think that they are -- work. I support that.

But I am very, very nervous about two things -- ground troops getting caught -- our young people getting caught up in a war. I'm chairman of the Veterans Committee. I have seen what the war in Iraq has done to hundreds of thousands of young people and I worry about that.

And second of all, I don't know why the taxpayers of Vermont have got to defend the royal family of Saudi Arabia, which is worth hundreds of billions of dollars.

BLITZER: Yes, they -- they're trying to put together a coalition but they're looking to the United States and a lot of people like you are saying why does the United States always need to do the work.

SANDERS: That's right. Not to mention, you know, you -- I'm sure you have reported the U.K. is concerned about terrorism there. You know, I mean they have a good...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: But you agree, ISIS poses a threat...

SANDERS: Oh, they are a total threat.

BLITZER: -- to the United States.

Are you worried about ISIS terrorists...

SANDERS: Not just coming here...

BLITZER: -- coming here to the United States?

SANDERS: I'm worried about everything. They are a threat to Europe, to the United States, to the region. They've got to be stopped. But it cannot be just the United States alone.

BLITZER: So a -- and you don't feel that the coalition that Secretary Kerry is talking about, 40 nations involved, you don't think that's good enough?

SANDERS: I read some of the language and it's not particularly strong at this point. And I know it's difficult. Kerry is trying. The president is trying. But I need stronger language.

BLITZER: Here's a political question -- do you want to be president of the United States?

SANDERS: Do I want to be president?

I think anyone who wants to be president is a little bit crazy, to tell you the truth. I don't wake up in the morning saying I want to be president.

But what I do believe is at a time when the middle class in this country is disappearing, when you have more people living in poverty than ever before and where you have more wealth and income inequality than we've had since 1929, where you have a billionaire class not only controlling our economy, but because of Citizens United, now being able to put hundreds of millions of dollars into elections, you've got climate change out there, you've got huge issues. We need candidates to stand up for the working class and the middle class of this country so the billionaires don't get it all.

BLITZER: So will you right now for president of the United States?

SANDERS: I am thinking about it. I was just in Iowa. We had some great meetings the other day. I am thinking about it.

But for my politics, we need, you know, we -- you're going to the Koch brothers and other billionaires spending a fortune. We would have to put together an extraordinarily good organization. I don't know at this point if we can. So it's something that I am thinking about.

BLITZER: You're an independent who caucuses with the Democrats.

If you run, will you run for the Democratic nomination or will you run as a third party independent candidate?

And there have been some, Ross Perot, as all of us remember.

SANDERS: Right.

BLITZER: Which avenue do you prefer?

SANDERS: Well, if I had Ross's billions, I might run -- that might be an easy answer. Putting together a 50 state independent political infrastructure is not easy. There are advantages running for independent because there's a lot of anger at the Republican Party, which has become extremely right, at the Democratic Party, which has not been seen as strong as it should be, defending working class people.

So there's a lot to be said about that. On the other hand, it's tough putting together an independent political structure to 50 states. And if you run in the Democratic primary, you're in the debates, etc. Etc.

So the answer is I don't know yet and that is something I'm talking to a whole lot of people about.

BLITZER: If you run for the Democratic presidential nomination, could you beat Hillary Clinton?

SANDERS: Look, I don't know that I could and I don't know that I couldn't. But this is what I do know. I know that this country faces enormous problems. I know that at a time when we have seen a huge increase in productivity, tens of millions of workers in this country are working longer hours for lower wages. We have the highest rate of childhood poverty. Ninety-five percent of all new income since the Wall Street crash, you know where that's gone, Wolf?

It's gone to the top 1 percent.

That is not what America is supposed to be about.

So I think we need a movement around this country so that we create a situation where government represents the middle class and working class and not just the billionaires.

BLITZER: One final question, if you run, when will you decide?

SANDERS: I've got time on that. But certainly -- certainly not before the November elections.

BLITZER: Not before the midterms, but shortly thereafter?

That's when Hillary Clinton is expected to announce?

SANDERS: Well, Hillary will do her thing and I'll do mine. I'm not sure when.

BLITZER: All right, we'll see what happens.

Senator, always good to have you here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

SANDERS: Thank you.

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