MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Islamic State

Interview

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MADDOW: I want to bring in Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. He was a member of the House of Representatives in 2002 when he voted against the last war in Iraq.

Senator Sanders, thanks very much for joining us tonight. What`s your reaction to the president`s remarks overall tonight?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Rachel, let me start you have on a tangent many others are not taking. There is no question that ISIS is a dangerous and brutal organization and that they have got to be stopped.

But I tell you what I`m a little worried about. This country today in terms of a collapsing middle class, more people living in poverty than ever before in the history of this country, growing income and wealth inequality, you know what? We have enormous domestic issues. We have crises right here that cannot be ignored, cannot be pushed aside.

So I hope that while we focus our attention on defeating ISIS, we do not forget, especially my Republican colleagues do not forget, that tens of millions of Americans today are struggling to keep their heads above water. We have more hunger in America than we`ve ever had before.

So, the goal, it seems to me, is to address the crisis in the Middle East, but not forget the crises facing the American people.

MATTHEWS: Senator Sanders, I agree with your foreign policy so often and I think -- it`s Chris Matthews. I think the big lesson of Vietnam, which you and I grew up together learning was, you go into a country, try to change the course of its history and then you come home. You`re leaving the people behind to run that country.

We`re not going into Syria. And somehow we have this notion we can change the course of its history. And I just wonder what you think about that, this -- is it arrogance? We`re going to change the course of Syrian history.

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SANDERS: Chris, of course you`re right. You`re not going to change the course of Syrian history. And I hope that we do not ever forget the lesson of the Bush-Cheney war in Iraq.

You all remember, it was simple. We were going to go in. They were going to vote democratic. It wouldn`t cost a whole lot of money. Our people would come home.

It didn`t quite work out that way. And I think what Chris is saying, there are a heck of a lot of unintended consequences once you get into war. And here`s the nightmare scenario that we have got to fight against, and that is -- Chris is right, if you have airstrikes, somebody may get shot down. People will become angry. Maybe we send troops into combat. And then you have a perpetual war decade after decade in an incredible morass of the Mideast.

Now, I think the president has been criticized, he wasn`t tough like Cheney and Bush. Thank God, he understands how complicated this issue is, that we need the international community. That at the end of the day, if we defeat ISIS, it will be the people in Iraq and Syria do that with the support of the United States, and with the support of the international community.

So, to my mind, this is an enormously complicated issue. I think the president is right, that we`ve got to help the so-called Syrian moderates. God knows how many of them that there are. I think air strikes are an important part. We need the international community.

But let us be very mindful of Vietnam, as Chris just talked about, and let`s be mindful of the Bush-Cheney war in Iraq and the disastrous impact that had on the region and on our country.

MADDOW: Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont -- thank you so much for being with us tonight, sir. Really appreciate it.

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