Senator Schumer's Interview With George Stephanopoulos

SENATOR CHARLES SCHUMER, DEMOCRAT, NEW YORK

Hi, George. Good morning.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS

(Off Camera) Well, you heard Mr. Gonzales there and he said it sounds like he's in no hurry to turn over those papers. And what he says is that this is a totally unique situation, that in the past nominees have been asked for these kinds of working documents only when there's been a charge of wrongdoing.

SENATOR CHARLES SCHUMER

No, that's not true, George. In one case, there was a charge of wrongdoing but Judge Rehnquist turned over his papers. Brad Reynolds turned over his papers. People have done this routinely, and there is no legal precedent against turning over the papers. In fact, when I originally asked for them long before the Estrada issue had come to a head, they took a month to determine that they wouldn't turn over the papers, and many suspected they looked at them and what they saw in those papers, maybe they didn't want the American people to see. And so our view is a simple one. If those papers are benign, if those papers show that Mr. Estrada is a conservative, but not way out of the mainstream, fine. But if they show, which is what his immediate supervisor has publicly said, that Mr. Estrada tries to twist and bend the law to fit his own narrow ideological view, then Mr. Estrada shouldn't go on the bench and the papers can be the proof of it.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS

(Off Camera) But, but sir, they also say that you've had ample opportunity, for example, to follow up on your hearings with written questions and you haven't taken that opportunity.

SENATOR CHARLES SCHUMER

Well, when you went to those hearings, Mr. Estrada answered no questions and again, Judge Gonzales, I respect him as a man, and we deal with each other on many issues, but he's just wrong here. No other witness has so little a record as Mr. Estrada. Simple questions, he was asked, for instance, name three Supreme Court cases in the past you disagree with. He refused. That's unprecedented. He was asked, what's your personal view of Roe V. Wade? He refused. He was asked his views on what a judge has to judge on, the first amendment, the second amendment, the fifth, 11th amendment to the commerce clause. You know, George, the court to which Mr. Estrada aspires to be is the second most important court in the land. It's going to have huge effect for a generation, long after George Bush is no longer President, and for Mr. Estrada to refuse to tell the American people his basic views on these types of issues violates the sacred process that the founding fathers put in place, advise and consent. They didn't say the President should rubber stamp. They said the Senate should question. This is the first time we are being stonewalled to this effect.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS

(Off Camera) But you heard Mr. Gonzales, sir. He says you're changing the rules on Mr. Estrada. He says you're asking for far more information than has ever been asked for at the time and in the past, people looked first at qualifications, second at ideology and now you're changing the priority.

SENATOR CHARLES SCHUMER

Well, no. That is not the case at all. First of all, no judicial nominee that I'm aware of for such a high court has ever had so little of a record and when they've had so little of a record you know there is a push and pull here. If you're a law professor and you've written a lot of articles, if you were a lower court judge and had issued a lot of opinions, the American people get a pretty good idea of how you think, but if you . . .

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS

(Off Camera) But they say he's filed 15 briefs to the Supreme Court. Those are all public. You've read them all.

SENATOR CHARLES SCHUMER

And everyone of them he was arguing for a client. We want to know his views. If, if this were simply an issue of, you know, the law being neutral, then we could just have a machine make judgments. But we all know on this court it's been studied and shown by Professor Sunsteen and others those appointed who have one philosophy tend to vote one way, those who're appointed who have another philosophy tend to vote another way, and the issues, environment, labor rights, the rights of so many Federal people, Federal laws that affect people are at stake here and all we want is some moderation and some balance. If the papers show that Mr. Estrada is a mainstream conservative, I'll vote for him. Many others will but we don't have any idea of how he thinks on any issue at all.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS

(Off Camera) Do you think he's a mainstream conservative or an ideological extremist?

SENATOR CHARLES SCHUMER

Well, his supervisor who, who supervised him when he was at the Solicitor General's office said, while he is a very bright man and no one would take that away from him, that he was of the type who tried to twist the law to meet his own ideological perceptions which this supervisor said were way, way over to the far right.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS

(Off Camera) But let me stop you there because he also worked for a Clinton appointee, Seth Waxman, in the Justice Department. Here's what Mr. Waxman had to say. He said that during the time Mr. Estrada and I worked together, he was a model of professionalism and competence. In no way did I ever discern that the recommendations Mr. Estrada made or the analyses he propounded were colored in any way by his personal views or indeed that they reflected any consideration other than the long-term interests of the United States.

SENATOR CHARLES SCHUMER

George, there's a very simple way to determine whether Mr. Bender, the supervisor I quoted, was right or Mr. Waxman is right. Let these papers go forward. This is such an important court and you know, George, I read the, reread the Federalist papers recently. The Founding Fathers had a huge debate on whether to, how to appoint the judges to our Federal Courts because, remember, they're the one unelected branch and they have supreme power over things that affect our lives day to day, the air we breathe, the water we drink, the rights of workers, and they, basically, came to the conclusion that the Senate ought to ask a whole lot of questions that the Senate ought to delve into who the President nominates and for the first time ever we're being denied that opportunity. The American people are being denied that opportunity, and you suspect that the reason why is because the White House fears that if Mr. Estrada's views became public, they would be so far out of the mainstream that he'd be rejected. That may be right, that may be wrong but there is a simple way to answer this question, the one the Founding Fathers intended, advise and consent, not stonewall.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS

(Off Camera) So, very quickly, sir, very quickly, if the papers aren't turned over, the democrats will continue to filibuster as long as it takes?

SENATOR CHARLES SCHUMER

Well, we're not filibustering. That's a misnomer. The Senate can do its business on every other issue. Last week while Estrada was being voted or discussed, we voted on the budget. We nominated and, put on the bench several other judges. So, it will be up to the Republican leadership whether they want to stay on the issue of Estrada, we're not going to vote on him until we get to see how he really feels on issues, or move to other issues. So, we're not holding up the Senate. It's they who will be if they choose to just stay on the issue of Mr. Estrada without giving the American people any idea whatsoever of what he thinks.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS

(Off Camera) Senator Schumer, thank you very much.

SENATOR CHARLES SCHUMER

Thank you, George.