MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript: Paul Ryan Budget

Interview

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SCHULTZ: Joining us tonight, Wisconsin Congressman Mark Pocan.
Congressman, good to have you with us.

REP. MARK POCAN, (D) WISCONSIN: Oh, thank. Glad to be here, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Sarah Palin being critical of Paul Ryan. Paul Ryan saying, she got to try some reading. We`ve heard that before. What is this budget all about? It is the most radical thing we have ever seen come out, is it not?

POCAN: It`s a budget that I can`t wait to go around and talk about what it really does. If the Republicans keep the house, get the majority in the Senate, and somehow take the presidency, this is their wish list. This is a really scary list. It`s a cost of economy about three million jobs, that`s like firing every single person who works in the State of Wisconsin.It`s a bad budget for seniors, for students. It puts Medicare into a voucher program. Go down the list. It`s every bad Republican idea. So, for Sarah Palin, to say what she did, I guess that every -- even a clock is right twice a day, right? But for the rest of us .

SCHULTZ: She`s trying to be even more right than the budget is which, you know, they`re always trying to outdo one another and jump in front of the prey.

POCAN: Let`s talk with this budget though, Ed. This budget is so bad. We sat down and did 26 amendments, try to talk about the provisions of it, but it doesn`t even add up. You know, the one thing that people have always said is at least Paul Ryan`s kind of policy wonk. He gets rid of the benefits of the Affordable Care Act but keeps all the revenue and the savings.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

POCAN: It`s absolutely impossible to do that. Yet that`s $2 trillion of how he balances his budget. So, it`s just good to look at as a roadmap of what they would do if they got in charge and why we don`t want them in charge.

SCHULTZ: Well, that`s the key comment right there, because the budget set for the next couple of years. What`s the motivation for throwing this out now? What`s Ryan really thinking? If I`m president, this is what I want?

POCAN: Well, I think, you know, he`s looking at the ways and means chairmanship, he`s trying to steal, set himself out in that party. But remember, when you`ve got that many Tea Party people, you got to be a little wacky to stand out, right? And he`s kind of putting something out there that shows a roadmap for Republicans in general. But I`ll tell you, the real people when they look at that, you don`t cut Pell Grants, $200 billion. You don`t cut other forms of financial aid for higher education. You don`t cut K to 12 education. You don`t cut highways and infrastructure. You don`t do the things that are in this budget because it hurts too many people.

SCHULTZ: It hurts everybody across the board except the wealthy. Let`s start when the fact he wants to bring the tax rate down to 25 percent. That will instantly make him the hero by cutting it by 14 percent. Your thoughts on that.

POCAN: The only way you can actually do that is to raise taxes in the middle class. Even Chairman Camp, when he put out his proposal, brought it down to about 35 percent that top rate, he showed it`s impossible to go down to 25 percent without hurting the middle class. And that`s exactly what will happen. So, when Paul Ryan yesterday described his budget as a win-win, I agree on that. It`s a win for the 1 percenters and it`s a win for the 7 percentile .

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

POCAN: . but there are 98 percent of us don`t benefit.

SCHULTZ: You know, you said something interesting to start out this interview, you said you can`t wait to go home and talk about this budget. Where is home? You and Paul Ryan basically are ideologically far apart, no doubt, but your districts are right next to one another. Ryan .

POCAN: We even share a county.

SCHULTZ: . on the bottom of the screen and you`re on the left side of the screen there. I mean, you`re butting up right against one another right there. How can so many people be so different in so many issues? How is he going to get away with this in that part of the state?

POCAN: Well, you know, I think Paul Ryan had this national agenda like you said. Is he running for president? Is he trying to be the ways and means chair? Is he trying to develop a national profile? But I`ll tell you, people in Wisconsin, please don`t think what Paul Ryan says represents the people in Wisconsin, because people in Wisconsin are fair-minded. We`re hardworking folks. That budget does not represent the values of the people of Wisconsin as many as in general.

SCHULTZ: Can he win on that? Can he go home and win on that? I mean, if this is really what he wants?

POCAN: Well, he`s going to have some explaining to do, because I`m going to keep talking about this. I think other people will talk about this budget. But, you know, you go tell my 85-year-old mother that somehow we`re going to cut social security, you`re going to voucherize Medicare. You`re going to do some of the things that are in this budget and, you know, you can`t say that to seniors and then you can`t say you`re going to raise the taxes on the middle class so that the top 1 or 2 percent can get a little benefit. He`s going to have a hard time justifying that back home. I grew up in his district, I know that area well.

SCHULTZ: OK. Congressman Mark Pocan, good to have you with us tonight. I just found it very .

POCAN: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: . interesting that the districts are right next to each other, two guys ideologically totally different. And bingo, he thinks he could take that and go home and sell that. What`s the -- is it in the water or what is it that people can just be across the line and be so different? That`s -- I find it interesting. Great to have you with us congressman, appreciate your time. Still ahead .

POCAN: Thank you.

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