MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript: National Security Agency Data Collection
Interview
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SCHULTZ: Big issue.
Joining us tonight, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Senator, good to have with us. I guess the question is can the NSA continue to keep us safe in this country with the information that we need to be safe if -- and still operate the way they have been operating? What do you make all of this?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: Well, I think what the president is doing is taking a step in the right direction but I think we need to go further. And I voted against the USA Patriot Act and the reauthorization of the Patriot Act because I worry very much about the overreach, not only of the NSA but other intelligence agencies.
In my view, you`re not a free country when the federal government collects every phone call made in this country, when the federal government gets into some our e-mails, those and the websites that we visit has the capability (ph) of going to a library and now the books that you took out, that is not what freedom is about.
So I think what the President has proposed is a step in the right direction. But I think we`ve got to go further than that.
SCHULTZ: Can we keep the country safe the way we used to have it before the NSA and the Intel agencies did all the things you just described?
SANDERS: The answer is I believe that we can. The issue here, Ed, is it is to my mind wrong and unconstitutional to collect information on every phone call made in the America when 99.9999 percent that the American people have nothing to do with terrorism. The kind of system that you want is to say that if we know, if law enforcement or the intelligent agency has reason to believe that somebody is involved in terrorist activity, maybe involved, go after them, do an investigation, tap the phones, do everything that you need to do to protect the American people.
But on the other hand, the overwhelming majority of the people have nothing to do with terrorism. We should not be collecting their phone data or getting into their e-mails.
SCHULTZ: And Senator, are you OK with collecting this phone data and the way the operation of FISA court works right now? Agents go do what they have to do when they have a certain amount time, they have to come back and get it sign off by a judge so they don`t act like a rogue operation? Are you OK with all that? Is that the way to do it?
SANDERS: Ed, what I`m not OK with is that the FISA court almost always with very few exceptions allows the intelligence agencies and law enforcement to do they what they want.
SCHULTZ: So it`s not really oversight?
SANDERS: It`s more of a rubber stamp is my perception.
SCHULTZ: OK. Well, senators like Rand Paul who have been critical to the President over the NSA work with him to make these changes. I mean, there are as some, you know, I guess libertarian is what they want to be called, free thinkers whatever that had been very critical, but are these critical voices going to come forward and speak up now?
SANDERS: Well, I would hope so. This actually is a moment when you will have honest Conservatives whose main mantra is they don`t like the government. Well, if you don`t like the government, if you`re an honest Conservative, my God, you don`t want the federal government filing every phone called in America or getting into our e-mails or into our websites. So honest Conservatives who do believe in Constitutional Rights should be working with Progressives who share that same value.
SCHULTZ: All right. Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you for you time tonight. I appreciate it so much.
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