MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript: Veterans & Ukraine

Interview

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SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: Good to be with you Ed.

SCHULTZ: You bet. I appreciate what you did for the veterans and we`ll get to that in just a moment. But, I want your reaction to some Republicans who are calling the president weak and saying that the United States is not in the position to do anything when it comes to the situation on the other side of the world.

SANDERS: Well, Ed, as you indicated, these are exactly the same guys who told us to -- was absolutely necessary for us to go on to Iraq, to stay in Afghanistan year after year, to run up a bill of somewhere around $5 trillion for those wars, a bill that was not to pay for, just put on the credit card.

So, I have a real hard time as chairman, by the way, of the Veterans Committee from hearing guys who are ready to rush up to war, rush up to war in Syria, really concerned about Ukraine, but when it comes to the folks back home, the men and women who put their lives on the line to defend our country who often came back wounded in body or wounded in spirit, somehow, this very same guys who are prepared to spend any sum of money going to war, well, they just don`t have the funds available to take care of folks who are dealing with PTSD or dealing with traumatic brain injury or can`t get the education that they will promise who are unable to get help in terms of having the family and all other types of veterans needs that we`re not providing right now.

So I got a real problem with that.

SCHULTZ: If we were to do anything militarily in the Ukraine, we know where this would lead to, don`t we? I mean, it would be more conversations about offsets. It would be more conversations about going after the social safety net of America because we know damn well the Republicans aren`t going to fore cut any extra cash for this.

SANDERS: Well, this is what we learned under the Bush administration. We spend trillions of dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan, at the same time, Bush gave huge tax breaks for the wealthiest people in this country, ran up a huge deficit. And then under Obama, the Republicans come back and they say, "We have a terrible deficit. We`re going to have to cut social security, Medicare, Medicaid, education, environmental protection, the needs of the kids, nutrition programs because of this deficit."

So, if you`re asking me, do I think that same set of policies will play out more money for defense and then rising deficits and then cut tax on programs that middle class and working family`s needs, absolutely that is what will happen.

SCHULTZ: What is going to happen to these veterans now senator if they`re not going to get this kind of funding. There are a lot of veterans in this country that are being under cut that are not being -- are obligation were not living up to our obligations because of war and because of budget cuts. And so, what does that say to the next generation that`s thinking about a career in the military?

SANDERS: That`s a very important point. I mean, it says that if we cannot keep faith with those people who are really hurting as a result of their service to this country, I think you got to have a lot of young people out there saying do I really want to make a career in the military.

I will tell you this Ed, and I didn`t really know this until I became chairman of the Senate Veterans Committee. The cost of war is enormous.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

SANDERS: I mean, you`re talking about people whose lives have been shuttered. Their family`s lives have been shuttered. Their kid`s lives have been shuttered. And if there`s any priority that the government of the United States should have is you take care of those people first.

SCHULTZ: Senator, your thoughts on how the president is handling this. And is it a crisis? I mean, the Russians, you can see while they`re making this move, at least I can because they want to keep that base that has been their. It`s their only military base to the open-water on the world. They`re concerned about security as well. A lot of the people in that country want them to be there. You have a country of divided loyalties here. It`s a security call on Putin or is it an invasion?

SANDERS: I think what you have Ed, is as often the case with foreign policy a very, very complicated issue. And usually, what the Republicans do in complicated issue says, the only thing these people understand these flaws, we`ve got to gear up, we`ve got to be tough. Yeah, that`s what goes into Iraq, at huge cost of military lives and money. It kept us in Afghanistan for 11 years. So, I would prefer to deal with the complicated issue in a measured way serious international discussions about how we proceed. But force, force should be the last option that we use.

SCHULTZ: So, you`re OK with the way the president is handling this right now?

SANDERS: I am.

SCHULTZ: Senator Bernie Sanders, good to have you with us tonight sir. Thanks so much.

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