MSNBC Scarborough Country - Transcript
MSNBC Scarborough Country - Transcript
03/21/05
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SCARBOROUGH: And that vote at 12:42 a.m. passed 203-58. And it allows a federal judge to take a look at this case and reopen it.
With me now are two men who were a critical part of that debate. We've got Congressman Chris Smith and we also have a former colleague of mine on the Judiciary Committee, Congressman John Conyers.
Congressman Conyers, let me begin with you. You heard what Tom DeLay had to say. He said, this is a matter of life and death. What do you say to those Americans out there that may agree with Tom DeLay and say, you know what? We shouldn't allow this young woman to starve to death, shouldn't allow her to die of thirst?
REP. JOHN CONYERS (D), MICHIGAN: Well, unless the House of Representatives and the Congress are, Joe, going to become a forum that hears several hundred of these cases every six months, this isn't going to work. We need to pass a law. And this is not a law. We're intervening on sides.
And people are perfectly at their liberty to pick which side they want to be on. All I'm trying to prove to you tonight is that, to create a super Supreme Court after the case has been litigated for seven years with doctors who have been there, who have attested and talked to everybody -- they've worked with Terri. They have satisfied court after court. Even the federal court refused to take it on appeal. And here we are now. We're going to be holding these kinds of cases from now on unless something is...
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Chris Smith, what have you done?
Again, like Congressman Conyers said, this has been tried in the courts. The doctors have looked at it, and yet, Congress steps in and says, it's been 15 years. Let's start the cycle all over again.
What have you all wrought?
REP. CHRIS SMITH ®, NEW JERSEY: Joe, I've been in Congress now 25 years, and this is one of the most remarkable days I have ever experienced, where the entire Congress has looked at an egregious case where a woman who is simply disabled has been found by several neurologists not to be in a persistent vegetative case.
SCARBOROUGH: But that is not what Congress does, though, on a case-by-case basis.
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: But, Joe, has been condemned to die by court order. There's a larger issue. And if John is right that these kinds of deaths are occurring all over with people who are not with-with stage four cancer or some other terminable disease and are being starved to death and being told that they cannot have any liquids, we have a major problem on our hands in this country.
But the case of Terri Schiavo clearly shows that there's a dispute among the family. Michael Schiavo, going back to 1993, after a huge windfall was gleaned by him and the trust, right after that, all interventions, therapies, medical assistance was precluded and denied to Terri Schiavo. That's outrageous. Doctors have testified that best practices could be used to mitigate, to help her mitigate her suffering, to make sure that she can operate at the highest possible functioning in life.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: John Conyers, a lot of people are offended by the facts, John, that, again, this lady has been in hospice for several years.
SMITH: Five years.
SCARBOROUGH: Five years.
SMITH: Five years.
SCARBOROUGH: Her husband wouldn't allow her to be treated for infections. He allowed her teeth to get so rotten that they had to yank three or four-three or four of her teeth. There are a lot of people disturbed by what's going on here. What do you say to those people?
CONYERS: Oh, I am disturbed as well.
But we've had no hearings in the Congress. You have 535 people who have been called. There's not been, Joe, one hearing in the committee, no chance for witnesses, no nothing. We just hopped on a plane within 24 hours, reported in for duty, as the speaker ordered us, and we began debating the case based on what we knew, felt, thought.
SMITH: Joe, if I could, this woman, who is not dying.
CONYERS: It's not the right way to proceed.
SMITH: Joe, this woman, who is not dying absent a court order that is compelling her death, could live for another 20, 30, maybe more years at a higher function of capability. But that's being denied her.
As I said before, five years in a hospice. People go to hospices-and my mother went to a hospice when she had terminal cancer and was dying as a way of mitigating pain and pain management. It is not for people who are disabled.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Well, you know, Congressman, you're exactly right. You bring up a great point. And I'll tell you what. Regardless of what you think of this case, her husband has acted in a deplorable manner. Infections, we understand, were just racking this young woman's body. He did not allow treatment on those infections. He let her live in a hospice situation that was absolutely dismal.
And, you know, there are doctors out there that say she could have improved, could have recovered. We're going to have one of them coming in just a second into SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.
Congressman Smith and Conyers, thanks so much for being with us tonight, a fascinating story.
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