MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Debt Limit

Interview

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Senator Amy Klobuchar is a Democrat from Minnesota. She took part in negotiations with Republicans to work out the deal. Senator, here`s the thing that I never liked about the Republican approach. It`s one thing to argue -- if you say -- I say 7, you say 9, let`s figure it out, let`s make it 8. That`s how negotiations usually work.

In this case, they went to the president, said, We know your historic accomplishment. You know how proud the country, the Democrats and you personally are of health care. Democrats and some Republicans have worked for it for a century, practically. Give me back. Give me that back as part of the debt ceiling.

I think that was an outrageous personal assault on the man, the country and his party and the achievement of this country, the last (ph) presidency. And to ask for that, just, Give me that, was never a negotiation. It was a personal insult to the president.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), MINNESOTA: Well, I think what the president did here was to say, I`m going to govern. And yes, we need checks and balances. And he, in fact, met with Republican senators all through the summer on the budget and has clearly showed, at the end of last year in his negotiations with Speaker Boehner, that he wants to do something long term on the budget to bring the debt down, but it has to be a balanced approach.

But this time, as you point out, Chris, this was all about partisanship. It was partisan poison pills, whether it was delaying the Affordable Care Act just as it was about to be launched or whether it was putting on things on about birth control on a budget. I mean, that just was the wrong approach.

And I think what is most significant here is, the American people saw it, as you point out. And, also, you have independents. We have a situation where Karl Rove commissioned a poll; 58 percent of independents said they didn`t think we should shut down the government over the Affordable Care Act.

So I think this was the president standing up and saying, we have got to move forward. And then also, the most significant thing here is because of how extreme they were, how extreme Ted Cruz was, moderate Republicans finally stood up and found their voice, whether it was people willing to go on TV and talk about it, or whether it was a group that came together that I was a part of 14, seven Democrats, seven Republicans, who were willing to stand up to it and say, let`s find something here to get us through the short-term and set the stage for a much more reasonable budget negotiation.

MATTHEWS: What is the future of Ted Cruz?

KLOBUCHAR: I don`t know. That is up to his supporters and what happens. He is one senator from the state of Texas.But, you know, I think a lot of his supporters think it`s very cool. He just stands up and gives a speech by himself in the Senate for 24 hours. I think what is good is people who are willing to stand next to people they don`t always agree with for the betterment of this country.

That was a victory. And it`s not a big victory because we`re just getting through to negotiate the next big thing. But at least we stood up to that kind of extremism, and the president clearly led the way.

MATTHEWS: Do you think the president`s out of the woods in terms of this happening again if the budget talks don`t work in December, by the 13th of December, if you don`t get something done by the government closing? The next deadline is in December and January. And then you have another budget ceiling coming up or debt ceiling coming up in January, in February. It just seems to me that these are all opportunities, like a steeplechase. Right? At any one of those chases, times in the race, they can use it again, slam that door again and do this
all over again.

KLOBUCHAR: Well, Chris, I think this has been brewing for a long time. It`s been under the surface, and now it blew up. I think that almost had to happen, none of us wanted it to happen, in order to stand up and say we`re not going to let you keep doing this. Maybe they will try again.

But when you look at those polls, you look at the numbers, what the American people thought, I think that makes a difference. And you also have with January 15 where over $20 billion more of these sequestration cuts take place on cancer research, Alzheimer`s research, military, you have a group of moderate Republicans that really don`t want that to happen that will join forces and say let`s bring our debt down. Let`s continue to do it, but let`s do it in a balanced way. And that will be the real test.

MATTHEWS: OK. Explain this to me.The president -- you don`t have to make a criticism of the president. He certainly doesn`t deserve criticism today of all days. But he`s been hit over the years -- I have been one of those -- saying he doesn`t really
spend enough time lobbying the Congress, working with them, working them,
members personally, using personal influence and relationships.

And yet, I have never seen such unity. Nancy Pelosi on the House side and Harry Reid in the Senate side, the party has been incredibly united. Why? What`s made it work so well as a unit this time?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, I think, first of all, I can speak more to the Senate, but we`re a big tent. We have people as conservative Democrats like Joe Manchin and my friend Senator Donnelly. And then we have people like Bernie Sanders.

And we have all worked together to say this is so extreme to talk about taking the health care away from $25,000-a-year staff members who are working on helping kids get adopted. This is so extreme to say let`s mess around with birth control while the government is shut down. And I think it really united people in a way that we hadn`t seen. And then finally, we have the fact that the president, since his last election, did say, you know, I have got some work to do in working with Congress. And I think he has reached out. He`s really made an attempt to work with
Republicans as well, to try to work on a budget.

So far, have we seen the fruits of the that? Not quite. But we might have seen the beginning with the bipartisan group that we got together in the Senate.

MATTHEWS: Well, I think you deserve some congratulation on your side of the aisle. Thank you so much, Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you very much.

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