MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Debt
Interview
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Joining us now is Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. Today, she convened a hearing to consider what the direct costs would be of going through with this shutdown and this default on the national debt.
Senator Klobuchar, thank you very much for your time tonight.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), MINNESOTA: Well, thank you, Rachel. You did a great job there.
In my old job as a prosecutor, I went after scams. And so, this is my job to day, to explain why this is such a scam, and why they are literally playing with the lives of the American people.
As you noted at the beginning, we are in a fragile state right now. We have had some good news in many fronts. Unemployment is down to 7.3 percent, real estate market is turning around, stock market is good.
And to just gamble that all away for attaching what is really a partisan poison pill to defund the affordable healthcare bill, which as you pointed out is starting to help people, the exchanges are going up, makes absolutely no sense. And we had actually two Republican economists that testified today, who talked about how you can`t let that debt ceiling lapse.
So, you can`t just shut down the government. The consequences are enormous -- 57 million American`s Social Security could be at risk, 3 million veterans benefits could be at risk.
Look at what happened in 2011 -- 2011, when they went to the end of the debt ceiling, the Dow plummeted 2,000 points, and Americans because of that credit downgrade had to pay about a billion extra in interest costs.
That`s what we`re talking about -- real money for real families hurting their actual jobs. And it makes no sense when we`re on this cusp of economic recovery.
MADDOW: Part of the reason that I wanted to talk about this committee hearing today was when I saw the guest lists with all of those Republican economists, Republican people who have been attached to the George W. Bush administration, advisers to the John McCain campaign, is this one of those cases where there are elements of the right, of the other side who were saying that a debt default or a shutdown would actually be a good thing.
We saw some arguments like that for example around the sequester, where parts of the right started to say, oh, we actually think it would be good for the country to do that.
Is that the case here, or does everybody admit this would be a terrible thing for the country?
KLOBUCHAR: Actually, one of the witnesses who`s called by the other side said, you know, we could look at doing this, was making some arguments some arguments that might not be that bad. But the two witnesses that I had called, one, the former McCain adviser, Mark Zandi, and then the other former Bush adviser, both said that this would wreak havoc on the country`s economy, wreck on businesses, really wreak havoc on regular people out there.
So, I think it was interesting we had these four Republican witnesses. It clearly shows the divide in their own party, but I can tell you one thing, Rachel, and that is that Democrats are united, as is the press, on allowing the Affordable Health Care Act to go forward with the benefits which you have pointed out.
And then, also the irony of this whole thing is that of the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office has shown that that actually, the Affordable Care Act in the long term brings the debt down.
So, to repeal it, they actually added an extra $100 billion to the debt. It makes absolutely no sense.
And what do I think we should be doing? We should get through this debt ceiling. We should get through continuing to allow the government to go on. And then we should work on a long-term government budget solution that replaces sequestration with a balanced approach, which in the Senate, there are Democrats and Republicans that would like to talk about that.And can I just add two more things? How about the immigration bill?
MADDOW: Yes.
KLOBUCHAR: Pass that over in the House. It would save over $160 billion in the next 10 years. That`s a debt reduction.
MADDOW: In terms of how this is resolved, do you actually feel hopeful that we`ll solve the shutdown first, and then the debacle thereafter? Or do you feel like this is something we`re heading towards long-term?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, I am hopeful because you hear a number of Republican voices in the Senate -- John McCain says that linking this defunding and delay of Obamacare to the debt ceiling issue is what he calls the height of foolishness. Other Republican senators have talked about it is a dumb thing to do, publicly.
And so, I think you`ll have a number of Republicans that don`t want to go off that cliff. That understand we have some real opportunities here to move forward on good legislation. So, that`s what gives me hope, as well as the unity that we have in our own party. And it`s based what we`ve seen in the history, what we`ve seen in the past, what we know doesn`t work for the country.
MADDOW: Senator Amy Klobuchar, senior senator from Minnesota, thank you for being with us tonight. It`s nice to see you.
KLOBUCHAR: Thank you, Rachel.
MADDOW: Thanks.
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