CBS "Face the Nation with Bob Schieffer" - Transcript - Foreign Affairs

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Bob Schieffer: And we're going to shift the subject considerably here. Mike Rogers who's the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee - thank you, Mr. Chairman, for being with us.

Mike Rogers: Thank you, Bob.

Bob Schieffer: Mr. Chairman. This week both sides in the civil war, the Assad government and the rebels fighting against it, accused the other of using chemical weapons. You've kind of got this in the news early in the week when you said you had been briefed, you and Dianne Feinstein, the Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and I think you said there was the possibility that chemical weapons might have been used by the rebels. Later in the week officials seemed to say they were pretty much thinking maybe they hadn't been used. Can you clear this up now?

Mike Rogers: Absolutely.

Bob Schieffer: Where do you think we are on that? Did somebody use chemical weapons?

Mike Rogers: I think when you look at the whole body of information, Bob, over the last two years, there is mounting evidence that it is probable that the Assad regime has used at least a small quantity of chemical weapons during the course of this conflict.

Bob Schieffer: The President said in Israel that if we find out that they had used chemical weapons, that would be, his phrase was 'a game changer.' He said before that just moving chemical weapons around would be a red line for us. What do you think he meant by that? Does he mean we're going to take military action, if they are using chemical weapons, or as he said, that some are moving them around?

Mike Rogers: Well last, it was August 20th of 201[12], he said both moving and/or using would change the U.S. calculus. I think it is abundantly clear that that red line has been crossed.

Bob Schieffer: Really?

Mike Rogers: Absolutely. It's interesting you see in the Senate, a Republican and a Democrat coming out saying we better do something. In the House the same Republicans and Democrats saying we're going to do something. Now is the time. If we're going to have any hope for any diplomatic solution and stop that wholesale slaughter of up to 70,000 and more in Syria, which is now spilling up to the doorstep of Israel, it's causing huge problems in Jordan, Turkey. This is a growing destabilizing event in the Middle East. The fact that they have, I think, put chemical weapons in a position to use and I believe have intent and, at some course during the last two years, have used some quantity of chemical weapons, this needs to be a game changer. You know, the President went to the Middle East and said this is a hard decision. If I go in it might be wrong. If I don't go in it might be wrong. Indecision, in this case, is dangerous to the United States' national security.

Bob Schieffer: So what should he do? I mean are you saying direct military intervention by the United States? What would you advise him to do?

Mike Rogers: If you want to regain our ability to have a diplomatic solution, we have no faith. I mean think of this, the opposition told the Secretary of State not interested in a meeting. Our Arab League allies talked to us frequently and they are as frustrated as I have ever seen them without, because of the lack of U.S. leadership at the table. This doesn't mean 101st Airborne Division and ships, it means small groups with special capabilities re-engaging the opposition so we can vet them, train them, equip them, so they can be an effective fighting force. And why that's important, Bob, is when this, if Assad goes next week, this is mass chaos. Think of the chemical weapons where you have al-Qaeda on the loose. You have Hezbollah on the loose in Syria. You have elements of Hamas in Syria now, trying to get their hands on this stuff. And you also have conventional weapons that makes the flood of weapons from Libya flying across to Northern Africa look like an antique gun show. This stuff is sophisticated, complicated, and destabilizing to the entire region.

Bob Schieffer: So what you're suggesting here is training special forces people to go in there or just using our special forces people to train the rebels to deal with this?

Mike Rogers: Yeah. I think if we create a safe zone in the North, meaning, think of this, the Assad regime has used approximately 100 Scud missiles so far on civilians. That, in and of itself, should prompt action. So we can do this in a way that doesn't lure the United States into a big boots-on-the-ground conflict, but uses our small group special capabilities to make sure that Scud missiles don't reach their targets. To make sure that they lose the opportunity to even use chemical weapons and train the right folks to get in there so we have some credibility on the ground for a diplomatic solution.

Bob Schieffer: Alright stick around for page two. We're going to devote the whole half hour to this situation and other foreign policy matters. I'll be back in a minute with some personal thoughts.

Bob Schieffer: Did you hear the news? The Senate finally passed a budget. And aren't you proud of them? Took them 13 hours of debating and voting on various amendments, and it was almost five o'clock Saturday morning before they finally passed it. Of course it's just a blueprint, has no force of law, and no more chance of passage than the budget passed by the House. But it is the first time that the Senate has been able to even pass a budget blueprint in four years, so I guess congratulations are in order -- maybe a brief golf clap. I won't go so far, though, as to say we should give the Senators comp time off for working after-hours. I already checked and they should be well-rested even after a long night. The Library of Congress reports that so far this year both House members and senators have been off more days than they've worked. They've already started their spring break, and will be back after Easter. That would be a full week after Easter. Good work if you can get it. Back in a minute.

Bob Schieffer: And here we are on "Face the Nation" page two, Congressman Rogers is back, along with New York Times columnist Tom Friedman, TIME Magazine World Editor Bobby Ghosh, CBS News Foreign Correspondent Clarissa Ward. She is joining us from our London bureau, and Clarissa, of course, is the reporter who got into Syria and brought us those spectacular reports of the Syria - of the civil war there before anyone else was able to do it. Clarissa, let me start with you this morning. There is news that the head of the Syrian National Coalition--that would, I guess, be the opposition group fighting the Assad regime, has resigned. Do you have any idea what this is about?

Clarissa Ward: Yes, that's right. This was announced this morning, Moaz al-Khatib who we actually interviewed in December, announcing his resignation. This wasn't much of a surprise to many political insiders who felt that while Moaz al-Khatib is a well-respected man, a thoughtful man, and an intelligent man, he didn't necessarily have the political experience to be leading the Syrian opposition, and of course, he ruffled a lot of feathers a couple of months ago when he suggested that the Syrian opposition should be having talks with the regime. So really, he suffered from a lack of legitimacy, particularly with fighters on the ground inside Syria.

Bob Schieffer: So do you think this brings the opposition closer together, or what happens now?

Clarissa Ward: Well, that's the million-dollar question. The opposition now has a new leader, a new Prime Minister, Ghassan Hitto, who spent many years in Texas, but it remains to be seen whether he will be able to unify the opposition and turn them into an effective and coherent force. And, of course, the subtext here really is, that within the international community, I think patience is running out, and the Syrian opposition does understand that, and that they really need to get it right this time.

Bob Schieffer: Chairman Rogers, what's--what's your take on that?

Mike Rogers: Well, it just goes to show you the split between the opposition, which is the fighters, and we have this growing problem. So you have the Al Nusra Front, an Al Qaeda associated and affiliated organization, playing a greater role in the secular opposition units in the fighting. So there is a difference between where the political folks are, the opposition political structure, who is trying to apply itself over what it the fighting force and they don't feel very connected, and we've had several meetings without the (inaudible), was, I thought a great selection for them with one exception, he had no credibility with the very people he was supposed to represent. And I, I don't see another political force dropped on top of the opposition that is going to work either. This is why I think you have to establish better credibility on behalf of the United States and our allies, the Arab League, with the folks on the ground who are taking casualties. They're very passionate, they're emotional about this, they see their friends and their families slaughtered. You have to connect to that in a very different way than just saying we're going to have these political opposition leaders parachute in and provide some guidance and leadership. That credibility just hasn't worked, I don't think it's going to work moving forward, either.

Bob Schieffer: Tom, I mean, you say "Middle East" and those two words tell you, this is more complicated than it looks from the outside. Where do we go from here? What should the United States be doing right now? We've had 70,000 people killed since it's uprising, and how many -- what -- millions of people who have fled the country. They're overwhelming Jordan, Turkey. What should we be doing? Are we doing what we ought to be doing right now?

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