MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

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And it`s impossible for me to believe they would have said the same thing about a Walter Mondale or a Jimmy Carter or a Bill Clinton. There`s an ethnic piece to this. It`s very hard to nail it down because they always cover it in ideology. But I`ve never heard anybody in this country call his opponent regularly anti-American or non-American, Congressman.

REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: Well, you know, Chris, there are a group of people in our country who have a very rigid idea of who belongs and who doesn`t.

And, in their mind, you know, what -- what economic class you come from matters, what color you are matters, what is your sexual orientation matters. There`s a whole set of criteria that they will use to decide who is included in the American dream. And if you don`t meet those criteria, you`re excluded. And...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Well, can I help you out here?

Can I -- I think you`re being too technical here. Black Americans were here in this country before like 90 percent of us white guys, OK? We`re the immigrants.

ELLISON: Yes.

MATTHEWS: We came in the last 150 years, most of us, Irish, Italians, Armenians, everybody else, Jewish people, everybody. Most of us came in the last 100 years.

Your crowd, to be honest about it, has been here since the beginning, OK? This idea that you`re not an American is absurd. Now, you may not like somebody.

ELLISON: That`s absurd.

MATTHEWS: But the idea they`re not American is crap. Your thoughts.

ELLISON: I will agree. I will agree. It is. It`s nonsense.

MATTHEWS: As you should.

(LAUGHTER)

ELLISON: It should be roundly objected to.

And -- but like right now, we`re dealing with a controversy where, you know, Ms. Bachmann has written letters to various agencies saying that there`s deep penetration of the Muslim Brotherhood, and is pointing it at a specific member working in this administration.

You know, so it`s not only the president.

MATTHEWS: Based upon what? What is that based upon?

ELLISON: Based upon nothing, nothing, just bald allegation.

We have challenged her on it. We wrote a letter saying this is wrong and it`s untrue and prove it. And she has just regurgitated the same old stuff. So, I mean, we`re -- this is not only the president. It is a prevailing attitude of trying to kick some people out of what it means to be an American. This is an ongoing, recurring theme. And we need to stand up against it.

MATTHEWS: You know, let me bring in -- let me bring in my friend Eugene.
Eugene, you have a woman, Huma Abedin, who`s married to a fellow who
happens to be Jewish from Brooklyn who has been through some very hard
times, of course all brought on by himself, but she stuck with him. I would call her a loyalist myself, a real loyalist.

And that`s for her working with Hillary Clinton hand in glove. Whatever you think of Hillary Clinton, and most of us think a lot of her, she would be able to suspect someone who was trying to influence her.Do you think she`s pretty political, Hillary?

EUGENE ROBINSON, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

MATTHEWS: And she would note if someone was trying to push a Muslim
Brotherhood line on her? It`s so absurd.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBINSON: She knows a lot about the Middle East. She knows a lot about -- look, that`s absurd.

I think you have to, you have to tease all of this apart and you have to separate out those who might sincerely have these crazy views and those who pick their shots and who come out with this stuff strategically or tactically I think right now frankly to change the subject from Bain Capital and Mitt Romney`s tax returns.

I think John Sununu and Rush Limbaugh would love us to be talking about anything but those subjects, and so they come out with these eruptions to try to change the subject.

MATTHEWS: Well, it`s not all -- I`m not going to say this is some brilliant choreography, but here`s Mitt Romney, the candidate himself, today describing Obama`s economic program as extraordinarily foreign. Let`s watch the candidate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is changing the nature of
America, changing the nature of what Democrats have fought for and Republicans have fought for.

In the past, people of both parties understood that encouraging achievement, encouraging success, encouraging people to lift themselves as high as they can, encouraging entrepreneurs, celebrating success, instead of attacking it and denigrating it, makes America strong. That`s the right course for this country. His course is extraordinarily foreign.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: He snuck it in there, Congressman, through the applause there, which usually you do to gin up more applause, but he snuck it in there, extraordinarily foreign.

If I were Romney, given what is going on with his Swiss bank accounts, and his money in the Caymans, I wouldn`t be talking about foreign economics because that must be what he might be accused of. I will get my money abroad and not pay taxes on it.

But here he is once again playing the ethnic card. Foreign, anti-American. It never stops. Again, nobody ever accused Walter Mondale or Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton of being a foreigner in their thinking.

ELLISON: What I want to say, Chris, is that, yes, it does have some political utility. It works now. But it only works because it strikes a deeper chord.

And, as a matter of fact, but it`s not only ethnic. I want to stress that in my view, I think this is akin to what Senator McCarthy was trying to do, trying to whip up and make people alien, foreign, and then make them radioactive so you can do anything you want to them.

MATTHEWS: Well, McCarthy was drunk most of the time and wrong all the
time.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: There were in fact before he came along a couple of communists they did find, like Alger Hiss.

But I want to thank you guys.

Eugene Robinson, it`s great to have you on, as always, sir. And Congressman Keith Ellison, keep it up.

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