CNN "State of the Union with Candy Crowley" - Transcript
Interview
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CROWLEY: I'm joined by Republican senator and Dr. John Barrasso of Wyoming, and Democratic Congressman Chris Van Hollen of Maryland. Thank you both for being here, especially on Father's Day.
I want to put up on our screen for our viewers what is currently in effect in health care. Children up to the age of 26 may stay on their parents' insurance. Children with pre-existing conditions and some adults have to have coverage. It bans insurance companies from dropping sick people from their rolls.
CROWLEY: It eliminates lifetime limits on coverage for the critically ill and it has drug rebates in it.
What happens to those particular very popular elements if the Supreme Court should say you can't have mandates, you can't force people to buy health insurance, what happens?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, let's just take, for example, the current prohibition on denying kids who have pre-existing conditions like asthma or diabetes, health care. If the Supreme Court were to knock down the individual mandate, that whole piece is in jeopardy just like some of these other pieces.
Now, we don't know exactly what the scope of the Supreme Court decision will be or of course what it will be, but the reality is those very important protections are at risk if the Supreme Court knocks it down.
And of course, the irony here is that people like Mitt Romney knew that, which is why RomneyCare in Massachusetts requires everybody being in the pool, because then you pool their risks and then you don't have discrimination against people with pre-existing conditions, whether they are kids or adults with cancer or other diseases. That is the whole idea of getting everybody into the pool.
CROWLEY: Well, also the idea is it is hard to afford to have these sorts of provisions if you don't have healthy people in the pool. If all you are insuring is sick people, you can't afford to continually to not have lifetime caps and that kind of thing.
Senator, the question here is certainly we can say that the Obama administration frontloaded the great things about this, at least as far as patients are concerned. What do Republicans propose to do if the mandate is dropped and insurance companies say, sure, we will keep it, but it will cost you double or triple or what happens?
BARRASSO: Well, first of all, Candy, I believe that this is unconstitutional and I believe there is going to be a stinging rebuke of this president's centerpiece legislation when the Supreme Court rules later this month, and they should rule that this is unconstitutional. If not, the Republicans want to repeal everything that is left standing.
But you raise the interesting point, because several times you said affordable. The whole goal of health care reform was to get patients to get the care that they need from a doctor they choose at lower costs. This health care law did nothing to deal with the fundamental problem, which is the cost of care.
CROWLEY: Sure, but now we have people that are getting benefits that I think you would sign on to, that you don't throw sick people off of health insurance, that even if you had a pre-existing condition, you should be provided some sort of health insurance.
So we have these sets of rules already in place, and the Supreme Court decision, if it throws out the mandate, jeopardizes those popular provisions. Doesn't it roll back onto Republicans who have fought so hard to get this thrown out? BARRASSO: Well, the Supreme Court may rule that just the mandate falls or the Supreme Court may rule that the whole health care law falls.
CROWLEY: And then what? Then what have you got?
BARRASSO: You are not going to see coming from Republicans a 2,700-page bill that, as James Madison said --
CROWLEY: What you will see?
BARRASSO: Well, you'll see step-by-step common sense solutions, but you are not going to see a law--
CROWLEY: When?
BARRASSO: -- so voluminous that it cannot be read, so incoherent that it cannot be understood, and you will see Republicans coming out, saying let people buy insurance across state lines, have people --
CROWLEY: But when? Because we're throwing out something that exists for --
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BARRASSO: -- is unconstitutional --
CROWLEY: OK.
BARRASSO: -- that is going to break the bank of the United States, it continues to be very unpopular because most people, Candy, if you go to a town hall meeting in Wyoming, and ask for a show of hands, they say under this health care law, they are paying more for their care and there's either a lower quality or a less availability of care, and people don't like that. That's why this law is so unpopular today.
CROWLEY: I want to try to get to you to answer what comes afterwards (inaudible) on this --
VAN HOLLEN: And that's why there is no answer here, because the Republicans say they want to repeal it. And then in the House they said they are going get to work with their replacement.
Well, we haven't seen any replacement, because while they say they want to make sure that the kids are not denied care because of pre-existing conditions, the only way you do that is by getting everyone in the pool. Everybody needs to understand that.
With respect to the cost of the health care, John knows very well that the main provisions to bring down those costs, put people in the exchanges don't even kick in until 2014.
At that time, the Congressional Budget Office, our nonpartisan referee, has said that for a given set of benefits the costs in the individual market could go down by as much as 20 percent, so those parts of the law have not even gone into effect yet.
CROWLEY: But the painful parts have not gone into effect yet, the taxes and that kind of thing.
VAN HOLLEN: But the parts that also will allow millions of Americans who were uninsured or underinsured to get affordable health care.
CROWLEY: Let me ask you, as I asked the senator, let's say this mandate goes out, what is plan B for Democrats?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, the reality is that this was our plan. I mean, this was the proposed --
CROWLEY: You don't have a contingency plan?
VAN HOLLEN: Of course, the irony is Republicans were for this plan before they were against this plan, before President Obama was for this plan. That's why it was modeled after Mitt Romney.
But, you know, Candy, look, the answer is that we put this plan in place. It makes sure that kids who have pre-existing conditions are not denied care. It allows kids up to the age of 26 to be on their parents' insurance plans.
CROWLEY: (Inaudible).
VAN HOLLEN: If they strike that down, there is no other easy answer, which is why Republicans from Newt Gingrich to Mitt Romney were in favor of this approach. This was their alternative to Medicare for all. This was the Republican idea.
CROWLEY: What I am hearing from the two of you in sort of response to direct questions is neither the Democrats nor the Republicans have a contingency plan for if the Supreme Court strikes down really what is the funding part of this health care law.
BARRASSO: Well, it is a (inaudible) step approach, let people buy across state lines, deal with junk lawsuits that drive up the costs of care because of all the unnecessary testing that is being done.
CROWLEY: When? But when do you that? Are you ready for it? Are you ready to throw it on the floor? BARRASSO: Well, (inaudible) the Supreme Court does. The court of public opinion is going to be right there the next day, This will be part of the campaign debates going into the election --
CROWLEY: After the election though.
BARRASSO: This will be a big part of it. You continue to use -- and Chris talks about Medicare for all; it's Medicaid for all, which is the program that right now half of the doctors in the country won't see people on Medicaid, because the reimbursement is so low, but that is the answer to the health care law, throw 17 million more people on Medicaid, which is why 26 states have sued the federal government, saying don't make us do this, we can't afford it. It takes money away from the education and a lot of things.
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CROWLEY: In the minute that I have left, I need to know if there is any thought inside the Democratic Party of saying, whoa, we have got to figure out a way to save at least these benefits that are already in existence. Has there -- have you talked to the White House? Is there a plan B?
VAN HOLLEN: We don't know what the Supreme Court is going to do --
CROWLEY: Well, I know, but --
VAN HOLLEN: (Inaudible) our plan, Candy.
CROWLEY: Right.
VAN HOLLEN: The Republicans have been against it. They have said that if the court strikes down even a part of it, they want to repeal the remainder. The answer to your question about what the Republicans would propose was what we saw between 2000 and 2006.
They did nothing; premiums from the major insurance companies doubled, it was the status quo, it was unacceptable and the American people rejected it. They want to go back to the status quo. We have got our plan.
BARRASSO: The president promised if you pass this health care insurance, rates would drop $2,500 per family. Families have seen the rates go up higher than that.
CROWLEY: In fairness, it has not all kicked in. But I have to call a time-out here simply because I want you to come back, because this argument does not go away. Senator Barrasso, Congressman van Hollen, thank you so much for joining us this morning. We will see you after the Supreme Court rules.
VAN HOLLEN: Thanks.
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