MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

Interview

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Thank you for being here, Congressman.

REP. KEITH ELLISON (D-MN), JOINED FILIBUSTER LAWSUIT: Yes. Pleased to be
here. Thank you.

KLEIN: Congressman, why did you sign on to the lawsuit challenging the
constitutionality of the filibuster?. You are in the House of
Representatives, obviously not the Senate. So what is your role here?

ELLISON: I signed on because I wanted to see democracy work. And when I
voted on the Disclose Act then I voted on the Dream Act, the majority will
was frustrated by this ridiculous filibuster rule. I mean these two items
should be the law of the land but they`re not because of the filibuster
rule. They`re literally kids walking around who would have benefitted from
the Dream Act worried about their future because a minority was able to use
some trickeration to just stymie their -- the will of the majority.

KLEIN: Now correct me if I am wrong, the Disclose Act which reversed some
of what Citizens United did creating disclosure of the spending in Super
PACs and the Dream Act which would have helped some children of illegal
immigrants get citizenship if they went to school, join the army, et
cetera. They both have majority votes in the Senate. They just got
filibustered once they got there, right?

ELLISON: That`s exactly right. It is a matter of fact -- you know, it`s
really kind of amazing because, you know, by defeating the Disclose Act,
the very groups that I believe are behind these senators who -- we now
don`t get to know who they are as they funnel massive sums of money. So
we`ve got private money, we got a minority ruling the Senate. And we have
compounded problems. Let`s start by getting rid of these crazy Senate
rules.

KLEIN: Now the constitution says that the House and Senate, Congress, have
the right to make their own rules.

ELLISON: Right.

KLEIN: Doesn`t that say -- and Senators have over and over again not
repealed the filibuster, they have not gone underneath it, they`ve ratified
it different times. So doesn`t that say pretty clearly it`s constitutional
and the Senate has chosen to have a filibuster and it is up to them to do
so?

ELLISON: No, I don`t agree with that. I think that it`s not
constitutional. In fact it was contemplated and rejected. Now the fact
that they have fallen into a bad practice because it increases the power of
each individual there doesn`t mean that it`s constitutional. And the fact
of the matter is, too, that, you know what, I want to test whether it`s
constitutional but maybe this lawsuit will help the prod the Senate into
acting and correcting its own business. something that has not been able to
do short of a lawsuit which is why I joined this lawsuit and I`m proud to
be part of it.

KLEIN: Now some senators, notably Tom Harkin and Jeff Merkley and Tom
Udall and Mike Bennett, and a couple of others, have been trying to reform
the filibuster. And something really I thought remarkable happened about a
week ago, when after a set of attempted filibusters by the Republicans,
Harry Reid, majority leader Harry Reid, went to the floor of the Senate and
he apologized to them.

He said, I was wrong to fight your efforts to reform the filibuster. The
filibuster has been abused and it should be reformed.

Do you think that implies that Majority Leader Reid and the Democrats are
actually going to reform the filibuster, maybe the court case isn`t
necessary at this point?

ELLISON: I think the court case is absolutely necessary because I don`t
trust them. If you don`t put the heat on them, they`re not going to change
it. Now I do think there`s a a lot of great senators who really want
reform, among those, you know, Udall, Harkin, and there are many more than
that.

But at the end of the day, you know, they have not been able to move things
forward even though several of them do want the change. So I think a
lawsuit and out -- and external force is what is needed in this situation,
even if that`s just to prod them to do the right thing, I don`t think that
removing this lawsuit is going to -- is going to be the trick. We need to
have the lawsuit move forward, see this litigated in court, if necessary.
But if they fix it, they can make everything move.

KLEIN: Now the key difference between the House and the Senate, of course,
is proportionality. The number of people who, you know, Montana doesn`t
get as many congressmen as California does, although it does get many
senators.

ELLISON: Right.

KLEIN: Now I was sort of stunned by these numbers that are in the lawsuit.
At the time of the country`s founding, seven of the 13 states representing
27 percent of the population could muster the majority in the Senate to
command action.

ELLISON: Right.

KLEIN: Today, using the filibuster, 21 of the 50 states representing 11
percent of the population, 11 percent, can muster the 41 votes necessary to
stop a majority in the Senate. Now I`m a Californian. We are arguably the
most disadvantaged by the -- of the current rules. But that -- doesn`t
that seem unfair? Doesn`t that seem like we`ve gone too far toward
disadvantaging the large states?

ELLISON: I think it`s gone too far. As a mater of face, I think that when
you look at the fact that each state no matter what their population has
two senators, the fact that they -- we have these crazy filibuster rules, I
mean you are compounding advantage on the minority in a way that the
founders never imagined, and runs contrary to the democratic spirit of our
country.

And so I think that it is high time to bring this to a close. Let the will
of the people emerge. Let`s have some real democracy in the United States
Senate. They like to call themselves a great deliberative body. I think
they`ve strayed from that and I think there are members of the Senate who
would be pretty happy to be able to return to a real democracy in the
Senate.

KLEIN: Minnesota Democratic congressman, Keith Ellison, thank you so much
for your time tonight.

ELLISON: Thanks.

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