MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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SCHULTZ: Let`s turn to Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, who is a member of the Senate Budget Committee.

Senator, good to have you with us tonight.

Here are just some of the highlights and the headliners, should I say, of the president`s budget: $350 billion in short term measure to encourage job growth. Before we go any further, of course, that is stimulus package. Again, it would implement the Buffett Rule, repeal Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. It would also tax dividend income over $250,000 as ordinary income. It would end oil subsidies and reduce the deficit by $4 trillion over the next decade.

What`s good about this budget, Senator? What do you like? What you don`t like?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Well, all of that stuff is good stuff.

Look, the fact of the matter is the United States today has the most unequal distribution of wealth and income of any major country. Wealthiest people are doing well, they are effective tax rate is lowest in decades. So, if we are serious about two things, Ed, number one, the need to create millions of jobs, the need to make investments in our energy system, transforming energy, rebuilding our infrastructure, it is totally appropriate that we ask the wealthiest people in this country to pay more in taxes and that`s where the Buffett Rule comes in.

Second of all, what the president has said, which I think most Americans agree, we`ve got to end the Bush tax breaks for the wealthiest people in this country, he`s absolutely right on that.

Thirdly, what he also said is that we have to end tax breaks for oil and gas companies. We have had companies in recent years, Exxon-Mobil, among other companies, making billions of dollars in a given year in
profits, and paying nothing in federal income tax. That is totally absurd.

So, I think all that stuff is right. We have got to reduce the deficit. We`ve got to create jobs, and the wealthiest people in this country should be asked to play a role in that.

SCHULTZ: Senator, these numbers, do they add up? Would it really reduce the deficit over the next 10 years? Would it do $4 trillion over the next decade?

SANDERS: From what I understand, it would. I would go further in one area, Ed. We need tax reform, corporate tax reform -- what the president is saying he wants to make it budget neutral. He wants to end some of the loopholes and exemptions and he wants to lower corporate tax rates.

I think you have so many outrageous loopholes, you have a situation where we`re losing $100 billion every single year, because of the tax havens --

SCHULTZ: Yes.

SANDERS: -- the corporations are investing in. I think we can raise substantial revenue while we also make a simpler, and more progressive corporate tax code.

SCHULTZ: Now, we all know that Paul Ryan`s budget would cut taxes for the wealthy and end Medicare as we know it. Today, he essentially called this budget dishonest. What`s your reaction to that?

SANDERS: Well, I don`t think it`s dishonest. I think it is a serious budget, trying to deal with the issue of fairness. I think clearly what Ryan is about is continuing the Republican effort to engage in class
warfare.

Who in their right minds could support a proposal which says more tax breaks for the wealthiest people and yet we`ll cut Medicare and Medicaid in drastic form?

SCHULTZ: Yes.

SANDERS: That makes no sense to anyone I know.

SCHULTZ: Here`s Mitch McConnell on the Senate floor today.

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MCCONNELL: The president`s goal isn`t to solve our problem but to ignore them for another year, which will only insure that they get even worse. Once again, the president is shirking his responsibility to lead by
using this budget to divide us.

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SCHULTZ: Senator, is voting on the payroll tax cut separate from the extension of the unemployment insurance? Is that a mistake?

SANDERS: I don`t think it should be separate, Ed. I think you got two huge issues. Clearly I`m not a great fan of the payroll tax holiday, but the middle class needs a tax break but at the same time we cannot
forget that long term unemployment in this country is very, very high, and we also need to make sure that we don`t cut drastically the reimbursement rate for doctors who serve Medicare patients.

SCHULTZ: You know, back to the budget for a moment, I have to say I thought it would have been a bigger number now that we`re going to be winding down in Iraq and Afghanistan. I thought it would be $6 trillion or $7 trillion instead of $4 trillion.

I mean, when you saw that number, what was your reaction?

SANDERS: Ed, remember, the president`s budget is essentially a recommendation to Congress, that is all it.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

SANDERS: And we`ve got to go from here and I agree with you, I think with the infrastructure that`s crumbling, with the potential to create over a period of time millions of decent paying jobs, roads, bridges, rebuilding the rail system, water systems, et cetera, I think we should make a very, very heavy investment and I think the president has put money into energy conservation and sustainable energy we could do even more.

SCHULTZ: Senator, good to have you with us. Thanks so much.

SANDERS: Good to be with you, Ed.

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