MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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With us tonight, Vermont Senator independent Bernie Sanders here on THE ED SHOW. Senator, good to have you with us tonight. You voted against both of these bills last night. What`s your concern at this point?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Well, absolutely we need a major tax cut for the middle class. Absolutely it has got to be funded by asking the wealthiest people in this country to start paying their fair share of taxes. What I worry about is diverting hundreds of billions of dollars from the payroll tax, which as you know, funds the future of Social Security.

President and others say not to worry, the federal government will be there. We`ll compensate the loss of the payroll tax. But when you have a 15 trillion dollar national debt, I do worry. So what I`m going to fight
for is major tax cuts for the middle class, do it in a progressive way.

But I would hope that we could do it in another way, other than diverting funds from the payroll tax.

CHULTZ: Senator, as I read this, it looks like you`re going to have to get a pound of flesh to get an ounce worth of help out of the Republicans. I mean, do you think a deal can be made with the folks in a
climate of obstruction in Washington.

SANDERS: Yeah, I do. You know why I think we can, Ed? I think the Republicans are running scared. I think they`re on the defensive. I think they understand that the American people have caught on that the Republican party`s major function in life is to protect the wealthy and the powerful. It is to not do a damn thing to create the millions of new decent paying jobs that we need in the country, and that they want to cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

You know what, more and more Americans understand that.

SCHULTZ: Well, I think you`re right on that. And the polling is clearly in favor of the Democrats` position. But what will, in your opinion, the Democrats give up to get some revenue if anything? Obviously you`re against cutting any federal jobs. But what would you give up?

SANDERS: I mean, I think there are ways to go forward. I think there are some waste in some government programs. But absolutely not, we`re not going to do what the Republicans want, cut hundreds of thousands of federal jobs. We`re not going to, in my view, continue the wage freeze on federal employees, which becomes a signal to every employer in America to say to his workers, sorry, you`re not going to get any wage increase this year.

I think the Republicans are on the defensive. I think the Democrats got to keep pressing them. And I think you`re going to see more and more Republicans defect and come up with something that`s half way decent.

SCHULTZ: But senator, the politics of this, what`s wrong with going home saying that we tried to give you a tax cut, but the Republicans wouldn`t let us? They wouldn`t give up any revenue whatsoever. Isn`t that
politically -- I mean, the big picture here is to win back the House and Senate and help President Obama run the progressive agenda.

Isn`t this a golden opportunity to turn to constituents and say, once again, the Republicans stopped us from helping you?

SANDERS: Well, absolutely, from a political point, it is. But we`re not just about politics. We`ve also got to produce for the American people. And we have got to create the jobs that they need and give them
the tax breaks that they need.

Look, if you do not put money into the hands of working families, A, in the midst of a recession, they`re going to be in very serious trouble. And B, they`re not going to be able to spend the money to create other
jobs.

This is what I think, Ed. If for once the Democrats remain strong, they keep pressing the point, yes, we need tax relief, yes, it has got to be funded in a progressive way, yes, the Republicans continue to obstruct -
- at the end of the day, in my view, Republicans are going to go home. They`re going to get some serious messages from their constituents. And some of the guys are going to start to cave.

SCHULTZ: What about the extension of unemployment benefits? In this climate, is that out of the question?

SANDERS: Absolutely.

SCHULTZ: Because they`re going to come right back and want to extend the Bush tax cuts. You know where they`re going.

SANDERS: Absolutely. Look, as you just indicated, every poll that I have seen and that you have seen says it is basically insane. Nobody believes that you continue to give huge tax breaks to millionaires and
billionaires and then tell people who are unemployed, sorry, we cannot continue to extend unemployment. Nobody believes it.

The Republicans are on the defensive. We got to keep pressing that issue.

SCHULTZ: Do you think they`ll go along with extending the unemployment benefits?

SANDERS: I think if the Democrats remain strong, keep exposing them for the tools of the rich that they are, yes, we will win on that.

SCHULTZ: Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, have a great weekend. Thanks for joining us tonight, senator.

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