MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

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SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: He does it by doing good public policy and doing what the American people want to see done. The middle class in America today is collapsing as you know. Poverty is increasing.
And the gap between the very, very rich and everybody else is growing wider.

What the American people have said over and over again is they want a massive jobs program. They want to put the American people back to work because we have in real terms 16 percent unemployment. So, if you begin putting real money into rebuilding our infrastructure, transforming our energy system, and creating the millions of jobs that we desperately need, that is the right thing to do and that is good politics.

Furthermore, if you begin to deal with these disastrous trade policies, whether you`re Republican or Democrat, most people understand that these trade policies of NAFTA, CAFTA, permanent normal trade relations with China have failed. We`ve lost 50,000 factories in the last 10 years, millions of good manufacturing jobs.

The president gets up there and says, you know what? I want fair trade. I want to rebuild our manufacturing base.

MATTHEWS: OK.

SANDERS: You`re going to win elections, and do the right thing for the American people.

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Should he be a progressive liberal president or should he try to be a centrist? That`s my key question. I think the American people read this guy and they`re trying to figure out what he is.

Senator Sanders?

SANDERS: Well, I think, you know, the evidence is overwhelming. When the rich are getting richer and their effective tax rates are the lowest in decades and we have a huge national debt, what almost everybody
understands is you have to ask the wealthy to pay more in taxes.

When corporations are enjoying huge loop holes so that some of the largest, most profitable corporations in America don`t pay a nickel in taxes, in federal taxes in some years, most of the Americans say that`s
absurd.

So, to my mind, Chris, this is not being terribly progressive. This is really kind of common sense politics which makes sense to ordinary Americans. Furthermore --

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There`s two different ways to run re-election. Back to you, Senator -- should he go rousing left and say, damn it you rich guys, you`re on the wrong side of history? Or should he say I`m going down the middle with Bill Clinton? Big question. It`s still my question.

SANDERS: To me, Chris, this is not even left. The American people understand who caused this terrible recession. We have 25 million people now without jobs. Wall Street -- you got crooks on Wall Street who are
peddling worthless paper and these guys caused this recession and they`re back to doing exactly what they did before.

I don`t think it is left to simply say, you know what? We got to deal with these crooks. They cannot continue to do what they have done, causing so much damage.

In terms of Social Security, you got Republicans, you got conservatives. Almost everybody understands Social Security has worked. It is an extraordinarily positive program.

Today, it has a $2.5 trillion surplus, can pay our benefit for 25 years. Why in God`s name would this president be talking about cutting Social Security or raising the eligibility age for Medicare?

So, I think what he has to do is talk to what the American people understand just like Roosevelt did. He understood that the economic royalists helped cause that depression. They hated him. He was prepared
to take them on.

I think Obama would be well served doing the same thing.

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MATTHEWS: Last word, Senator.

SANDERS: I`m the longest serving independent in American history. So to my mind I think what the people want is somebody who is simply going to tell them the truth about what`s going on in this country. And the fact that the rich are getting richer while so many other people are hurting, we need policies to address that.

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