MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

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SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

Senator, I want you to respond to what Senator Rand Paul said right there.

SANDERS: It was really quite amazing. Rand Paul is blaming poverty on the government despite the fact that we have given huge tax breaks to the wealthiest people in this country and poverty has increased.

More to the point, in America today, we`ve got a huge moral dilemma, Ed, and that is that while we have the most unfair and unequal distribution of wealth and income of any major country on earth, you got 400 people on the top owning more than wealth than the bottom 150 million people. We also have by far the highest rate of childhood poverty of any major country on earth, over 21 percent of our kids are living in poverty.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

SANDERS: And what we have physicians coming forward today at that hearing saying is, Ed, if you are in the top 20 percent income bracket, you will live 6 1/2 years longer than people in the bottom 20 percent. That`s called a death sentence.

According to a study at Harvard University, 45,000 Americans die each year because they don`t get to a doctor when they should and they don`t have health insurance. That`s called a death sentence.

SCHULTZ: And, Senator, aren`t the Republicans -- and correct me if I`m wrong -- I mean, I think they`re lying about these programs that have been in place for 70 years. In fact, a new poll asked Americans if theyagreed to the statements describing Social Security as a monstrous lie. Seventy-two percent said the statement is not accurate.

And Americans support Medicare just as strongly, but these institutions of our foundation in this country to help people live in dignity and not in poverty are under attack. And right there at a Senate hearing you have an elected official flat-out lying about their existence.

What`s the best way to combat this in your opinion?

SANDERS: Well, I think what we have to be very clear and understanding is that these right wing extremists at the end of the day, their job is to represent the wealthiest people and the largest
corporations.

So, what happens, Ed, if their dream comes true and you abolish Social Security tomorrow? What happens is that if people want some retirement benefits, they`re going to have to sign accounts with Wall Street. And if you abolish Medicare and Medicaid, then you`re going to see a tremendous increase in profits in the health insurance companies.

The truth of the matter is, as you just indicated, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, are extremely popular. Vast majority of the American people want to maintain those programs. They want to strengthen those
programs.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

SANDERS: And they won`t ask the wealthiest people in this country who have been drawing huge tax breaks to help pay for them.

SCHULTZ: And we now have just under 50 million people in this country with no health insurance. In your opinion, Senator, when does the middle class fall into poverty?

SANDERS: Well, what we have seen, Ed, as a result of this recession and what the census bureau told us today, is that when you have 16 percent of our people who are truly unemployed or underemployed, you`re seeing a significant increase in poverty. So unemployment goes up and poverty goes up. And that`s where we are today.

And that is why we need to do two things. Number one, we have got to defend the social network, the safety net, so that our children can have at least a minimum standard of living. We have to be totally ashamed of the fact that we are by far the largest rate of childhood poverty in the industrialized world, two or three times what other countries have. And we need a real jobs program to put people to work so that they are not in poverty.

SCHULTZ: Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, always a pleasure. Great to have you with us tonight.

I`m going to be in Ohio tomorrow night and going to be asking the workers there what they think about those institutions. Workers in Ohio haven`t stopped fighting for their rights. Their governor is trying to
take them away with Senate Bill 5. In less than two months from now, they will vote to re-call what`s known now as Measure 2.

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