CNN Capital Gang -Transcript
CNN
SHOW: CNN CAPITAL GANG 23:00
HEADLINE: Winners and Losers At The Republican National Conventions; President Bush Shores Up Base With Conservative Acceptance Speech; Ohio Still Strongly Contested State
GUESTS: Steny Hoyer, Joe Hallett
BYLINE: Mark Shields, Robert Novak, Kate O'Beirne, Al Hunt
HIGHLIGHT:
In New York, George W. Bush concluded the 38th National Convention of the Republican Party with a 62 minute speech accepting his re-nomination for president. Three of the news-making speakers at the Republican convention were the former mayor of New York City, the new governor of California and a lifelong Democrat from Georgia. All of them took aim, at different times, at John Kerry.
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BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
MARK SHIELDS, HOST: Welcome to CAPITAL GANG. I'm Mark Shields with Al Hunt, Robert Novak and Kate O'Beirne. Our guest is the number two Democrat in the U.S. House of Representatives, Minority Whip Steny Hoyer of Maryland. Thanks for coming in, Steny.
REP. STENY HOYER, (D) MD: Good to be here, Mark. I think.
SHIELDS: It is. It is. It better be. In New York, George W. Bush concluded the 38th National Convention of the Republican Party with a 62 minute speech accepting his re-nomination for president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENT: Because the union of a man and woman deserves an honored place in our society, I support the protection of major against activist judges.
Do I forget the lessons of September 11 and take the word of a mad man or do I take action to defend our country? Faced with that choice I will defend America every time.
In the last four years you and I have come to know each other. Even when we don't agree, at least you know where I believe and where I stand.
You may have noticed I have a few flaws. For as long as our country stands, people will look to the resurrection of New York City and they will say, "Here buildings fell, here a nation rose."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHIELDS: Al Hunt, did the President do what he needed to do politically with this speech?
AL HUNT, CAPITAL GANG: Yeah, Mark, he sure did. This was a very effective speech. He was-I think the end was particularly good, the final several minutes, there was some good self-deprecation and also he really I think emotionally connected with both the people in the hall and with the viewers in America. This was a lot about national security and the "War on Terrorism."
It wasn't very much about Iraq. There were passing references to Iraq. This was about 9/11 and this was about the heroes and the victims of 9/11 and George Bush's association. That's the way he started the speech, that's the way he ended the speech and that, they think, and I think, probably with great justification, those are winning issues so I think it was very, very effective.
On the domestic stuff, I thought he was mailing it in. I thought he went through the motions. He wanted to say it was a big bold agenda, he doesn't tell us what any of it is. It doesn't even square with some of what he's done already.
For instance, he said he was going to double the number of job training people the federal government sponsors. He actually proposed to cut that budget. And there was a domestic report out today on unemployment which showed really quite a mediocre job growth, so the domestic -- 144,000, they are more people added to the workforce so if you keep that up you'll keep rising unemployment so I think there are some problems in the substance but boy, it was well done.
KATE O'BEIRNE, CAPITAL GANG: Al, the unemployment numbers down. You're sounding like an economic "girlyman," Al, that Arnold Schwarzenegger warned us about.
HUNT: I think you are a "girlyman" when you are satisfied with 144,000. That's not very good, Kate.
O'BEIRNE: Look, I thought...
HOYER: ...what they said it was going to be...
HUNT: Exactly.
O'BEIRNE: Oh, they all sound like economic "girlymen." I thought it was a terrific speech. Really well-delivered. He was extremely confident. He was very relaxed. I thought the speech specifically played to some of the strengths he already enjoyed. A strong leader who is going to hit on that ground when he looked at the camera and said, "I will defend America every time." The likeability- even people who disapprove of George Bush, he has a high likeability. The humor, I agree with Al, used effectively. And the sense of a man who has strong convictions who says, "Even when you disagree you know where I stand. Of course, the contrast is John Kerry himself doesn't know where he stands. Altogether, I think, an excellent speech. He certainly talked about Iraq. He said after 9/11 he could not trust our security to a madman.
SHIELDS: Steny Hoyer. After listening to this-I'm getting diabetes here. All this sweet talk of George Bush in New York. Was it really that great?
HOYER: Well, I think they think it was that great and we'll have to see how great it was but I think it was successful in ignoring, as Al points out, their domestic failures. We have 5 million more Americans without health insurance. We have 4 million more Americans in poverty since this president took over. 2 million more unemployed. Al's right. You need 150,000 to stay evening. They said they were going to get 5 million, they've gotten 1 million. So-but they were successful in not discussing the failures of this administration.
SHIELDS: Well, John Kerry didn't discuss his Senate (inaudible), and George Bush didn't discuss from September 11th until today. Other than Iraq. And Vietnam.
ROBERT NOVAK, CAPITAL GANG: This was a good speech. It was an excellent speech. Most acceptance speeches are. I thought John Kerry was one of the most mediocre out of there. I thought that the senior Bush's acceptance speech in '92 was one of the poorest I ever heard. This was a good one.
The reason that Al doesn't like the domestic thing is this was a very conservative speech. This is a conservative president. He talks about things that people in his base and in the Republican Party know about. He talks about protecting the unborn. You don't have to make a long speech about that to know what he means. Then he talked about activist judges. You know exactly what he means. He came out for tax reform and simplification. He came out for private accounts on Social Security. Those are all part of the agenda and I thought that-and Al can appreciate that and I think you said it was, was very well-written and it had some very good emotional lines.
HUNT: Well-said by the...
HOYER: That's because at the end it was certainly very moving at the end and I think he has convictions.
HUNT: It was too long.
NOVAK: It was too long.
SHIELDS: Let me just ask-raise a discordant note in this otherwise harmonious setting. I mean he was resolute but people really have grave doubts about how resolute he is and where he's taking us. Not about whether he's strong but whether his judgement is good. I mean, about Iraq, I mean...
NOVAK: What people are they?
SHIELDS: One third of Americans...
NOVAK: He's got about 93 percent of the Republican vote and he's right now in a close race with Kerry. You sound like there's people out in your neighborhood-in your neighborhood they probably are against him...
SHIELDS: Do you want to ask me a question and do you want an answer, Bob, or do you just want to hear yourself?
NOVAK: I just want to hear myself. Go ahead.
SHIELDS: Of course you do. One third of Americans think that Iraq, as of now, was worth the cost in lives and treasure. And I don't know. He presented himself as sort of-basically his message seems to be things have never been worse so I'm the only guy to get us out of the mess we're in.
O'BEIRNE: If you're a Michael Moore Democrat you're not going to be persuaded. I grant you that. But the "L.A. Times" poll heading into the convention had 15 percent of Democrat supporting George Bush, only 3 percent of Republicans supporting John Kerry. He made a very strong case for his leadership on the "War on Terror" and that is the top challenge facing him.
HUNT: I'm not a Michael Moore Democrat, a Michael Moore Republican, or a Michael Moore anything, but you phrased that simple formulation. After 9/11, you couldn't trust a madman. Kim Jong-Il is far more dangerous than Saddam Hussein. Does that mean we take him out next?
O'BEIRNE: I think what it means is the public is going to trust George Bush's leadership on Iran and North Korea more than John Kerry's.
HUNT: Are we going to take out Kim Jong-Il?
SHIELDS: Steny had one quick thing to say.
HOYER: Well, I was just going to say being resolute in the pursuit of failed policies is not a virtue.
SHIELDS: Ay. Oh. I say one thing. Here we have a whip who's a poet. Steny Hoyer and the Gang will be back with "Winners and Losers" out of Madison Square Garden.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SHIELDS: Welcome back. Three of the news-making speakers at the Republican convention were the former mayor of New York City, the new governor of California and a lifelong Democrat from Georgia. All of them took aim, at different times, at John Kerry.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK: President Bush is the only leader who is willing to stick with difficult decisions even as public opinion shifts and goes back and forth and John Kerry, whose record in elected office suggests a man who changes his position even on important issues.
ARNOLD SCHWARZENNEGER, GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA: If you believe that this country, not the United Nations is the best hope for democracy than you are Republican.
SEN. ZELL MILLER, (D) GEORGIA: This is the man who wants to be the commander-in-chief of the U.S. armed forces? U.S. forces armed with what? Spitballs?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SHIELDS: OK, Zell? As we did after the Democrats met in Boston, we'll pick the "Winners & Losers" of the Republican convention. Bob Novak. Who in the Big Apple was the big winner?
NOVAK: The biggest winner was Zell Miller. He is so popular in the party now. They hardly knew who he was. He's still a Democrat but he could get elected to almost anything or even President. They love him at Madison Square Garden.
SHIELDS: Steny?
HOYER: Well, I don't know about that. Which party?
The right wing was the big winner. They successfully hid behind their "girlymen" moderates and were not to be seen nor is there record to be talked about.
SHIELDS: Kate O'Beirne. Big winner?
O'BEIRNE: I think New York City was the big winner. It was a terrific convention city. I was in a hotel with the Mississippi delegation. They found New Yorkers there as friendly as they are. Particularly New York's finest. The New York City police did a fabulous job.
SHIELDS: I agree they did. 12 hours on, 12 hours off...
HUNT: I'm going to just go along with Kate O'Beirne. Absolutely. I stayed with the Alabama delegation and they had the same feeling. It was wonderful. Even the New York City cab drivers were absolutely terrific...
O'BEIRNE: Very friendly.
HUNT: ...this week and I think the city deserved great credit. The city really did plan this thing very well and it worked.
SHIELDS: I have to say the big winner of the convention was Arnold Schwarzenegger. Arnold Schwarzenegger moved from being sort of this curiosity item to being a major figure and he lighted up the place, I think, more than anybody else all week. It was really phenomenally. But one thing I did have to say, when Rudy Giuliani said on September 11th he said, thank God George Bush was president. I just-that didn't happen. It was like when Jack Valenti said I sleep better nights because Lyndon Johnson is in the White House. OK, Bob, who is the big loser?
NOVAK: The big loser are the pro-choice Republicans. Ann Stone and Jennifer Stockman were roaming around the platform committee, they couldn't even get a vote, much less something in the provision. Of course, they had pro-choice Republicans who addressed the convention but they didn't mention the word "abortion."
SHIELDS: Steny?
HOYER: I think the truth was the loser. I think they misrepresented Bush's record. I think they misrepresented Senator Kerry's record. I think they misrepresented the consequences of the policies they are pursuing. I think the truth was the loser.
SHIELDS: Truth is a casualty. Go ahead, Kate.
O'BEIRNE: My loser is the Democrat's rapid response team. It was in the person of Elliot Spitzer and Frank Lautenberg and some obscure mayors. Nevermind the A-team, like Steny Hoyer, not showing up, when even the B-team Democrats won't come to New York to defend John Kerry, that has to be a really bad sign.
SHIELDS: In any A-team, Democrat or Republican, Elliot Spitzer has to have a place. Go ahead.
HUNT: The big loser was Bob's winner. Zell Miller, whose substantive achievements as governor in education and the like will be forever overshadowed by the bookends of hatred. His start as a racist in the 60s and that vicious, mean spirited speech. What's he so angry about? This is a man who's really got some trouble.
NOVAK: You know what?
HUNT: No, no, no, because I haven't finished. Chris Dodd...
SHIELDS: Bob-he doesn't really want an answer.
HUNT: Chris Dodd and his Senate colleagues said, you know, I expected after hearing him for a couple minutes, I thought he'd bring out an axe.
NOVAK: I'll tell you why it's so...
HUNT: I'm sorry, Steny, what did you say?
HOYER: Zell Miller would speak for a party that he said was the party of division and diversion. That's what it was at the convention.
HUNT: Zell's passionate, whichever way he goes.
HOYER: He joined 'em.
NOVAK: I'll tell you why he was so angry. Because he thinks the Democratic Party has betrayed him. This is a major figure in the Democratic Party in the South and it is so symbolic that this guy is now completely with the Republicans. And you say he's a loser. He's a loser with people like you, Al. But he's not a loser with the Republican Party. They love him.
SHIELDS: Bob, you already had your turn. I haven't had mine.
NOVAK: I'm sorry.
SHIELDS: Now, let's get one thing straight. Zell Miller succeeded in igniting the Democrats in 1992 at Madison Square Garden. He united the Democrats at Madison Square Garden in 2004 as well.
Now, the biggest loser was, I hate to say it, because I like him, enormously, Bill Frist. It was the worst speech. Did you see him? He had been to a famous elocution school and his movements were just like "I Robot" and it was just terrible. It looked like he had six A batteries in a AA toy. It was-I felt so bad for him. He'll recover, I hope, but I'm sorry...
NOVAK: You're exactly right.
SHIELDS: I am right?
NOVAK: Yes.
O'BEIRNE: Mark, if you were to contrast...
NOVAK: That was the worst speech of the convention.
SHIELDS: Well Elaine Chao was close.
O'BEIRNE: If you want to contrast the two conventions, how much more attractive and appealing were John McCain, Rudy Giuliani and Arnold Schwarzenegger than Al Sharpton, Howard Dean, if you want angry, and Ted Kennedy. In 1992, Democrats were hailing Zell Miller as a Southern statesman. He was the liberals favorite governor in 1992. He's now a 9/11 Democrat like Ed Koch, who cares more about national security than partisanship.
HUNT: The last time that Bob and I strongly disagreed on a figure was about three weeks ago on Alan Keyes where you chastised me for saying he was a little bit nutty. This week he called the vice president's daughter a selfish hedonist. Do you agree now he's a little nutty?
NOVAK: I disagree with him on that but let me say one other thing we shouldn't omit is Rudy Giuliani really was a big winner, too. He was-if he could go on the road to Damascus(ph) and get right on abortion he could be nominated for President.
HUNT: And gay marriage and a few other things. John McCain gave a good speech.
HOYER: Again, the victim was the truth. You got to get back to what is this all about? And it is about those 5 million people who have lost health insurance. It is about the 2 million unemployed.
NOVAK: Well, you're on message, aren't you?
HOYER: You betcha, because that's what this is about. It's not about who performed well, who spoke well, who's glitzy, who was sexy, it's about, "Are the policies working for America's people?"
SHIELDS: There's a reality out there, Steny. Next on CAPITAL GANG, the Democrat strikes back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SHIELDS: Welcome back. Barely minutes after President Bush completed his acceptance speech, Senator John Kerry responded from Springfield, Ohio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me sum up my response to the president's speech in four words-all hat, no cattle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHIELDS: The Democratic candidate specifically struck back at attacks on his national security credentials.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRY: I will not have my commitment to defend this country questioned by those who refused to serve when they could have, and have misled America into Iraq.
Vice president-the vice president called me unfit for office last night. Well, I am going to leave it up to the voters to decide whether five deferments makes someone more qualified than two tours of duty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHIELDS: First national poll taken through the first three days of the Republican National showed President Bush over the 50 percent mark for the first time this year, with an 11-point lead over Senator Kerry.
Bob Novak, is John Kerry now responding effectively to the Republican attacks?
NOVAK: Well, he's responding. This is-he is following the James Carville course of hit back. Mr. Carville has been very critical of Mary Beth Cahill, the campaign manager, as being too soft, and but I thought the-I thought the speech in Springfield, Ohio-you've been there many times.
SHIELDS: I have. Clark (ph) County.
NOVAK: And that place I thought was a stupid venue. It was in the middle of the night. The audience was not responding. He gave a very disorganized, disjointed speech.
I think the last thing he wants to do is to revive this business about going back into people's records and to talk about Dick Cheney's draft deferments it's-is chintzy. And I'll tell you something else, is that he talked about health care, then he went to Iraq, then he went back to health care. I thought it was a disjointed speech, and Democrats that I talked to say this guy has got to get his campaign in shape. It's not doing well.
SHIELDS: Steny Hoyer, just so I understand it. Chintzy to talk about Dick Cheney's five deferments, but not chintzy to attack John Kerry's service?
HOYER: From Bob's perspective, apparently. The fact of the matter is, though, that what John Kerry did was unprecedented and I think is going to be reflective of the next 60 days. John Kerry isn't going to take being attacked lying down or in the back room. He is going to be out there talking to the American public. He did it immediately. I thought he did it effectively. I think he's going to tell America that he has every intention of being as forceful as America needs to be in defending us against terrorists and going after terrorists, and also making America strong here, and talking about the problems that this president said he was going to solve that still remain not only unsolved but worse.
SHIELDS: Al Hunt, Bill Clinton said two years ago, at a time when Americans are concerned and worried about their security, they prefer a leader who's strong and wrong, than one who's right and weak. I mean, has Kerry come across as weak, do you think, in all of this?
HUNT: Yeah, let me just correct Bob a little bit. James Carville has been critical, but it hasn't been to have him hit back, this is a candidate and a campaign that over the last three or four weeks have been slow, they've been sluggish, they haven't been able to make decisions. The campaign talks about focus groups before they do anything, and I did a story Tuesday morning at the convention saying that there are a number of Democrats that thought there should be a shake-up with the candidate and the campaign. And that they really had to if they wanted to be competitive in this race, Steny. And their response was that this was just a Carville plan-in fact, I talked to a dozen people about that story, including three in the campaign, and that secondly, everything was fine. They didn't have any problems. August had gone very, very well for them.
If they believe that, they're in deep trouble. This is still a race John Kerry can win, but he has had a bad month.
O'BEIRNE: If that performance at midnight on Thursday night is an example of the product of this campaign that's been shaken up, that is a very bad sign for John Kerry.
HUNT: It wasn't a shake-up, though.
O'BEIRNE: Well, then they badly need one, although their fundamental problem is their candidate, of course. He looked desperate. He wouldn't even give the president one night to himself, unrebutted, unfiltered? He looks whiny. He's trying to tell us all what a war hero he is, and he looks whiny and wimpy. The only person who said that he didn't have a sufficient commitment to defend America, based on his voting record, was a former Marine, Zell Miller. Those who actually do say he's unfit to be commander in chief are 250 fellow decorated Vietnam vets. But as long as he is so whiny, complaining about what people are saying about him, he's talking about the past.
He thought he could carry himself to the White House based on a tiny little band of brothers. His problem is a brigade of brothers who served with him have now come on the scene, and he won't confront the fundamental case they're making.
HUNT: Because they've lied, and every time-every time anyone has looked at what they have said, whether it's "The Chicago Tribune," "The Los Angeles Times," "The New York Times," they have proven that every single one of his medals is demonstrated...
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: As John McCain said, what these people have done is smear the records and the medals and the ribbons of everybody over there, not just one-that's Senator John McCain.
NOVAK: Just because you say that in a loud voice doesn't mean it's true. But let me-let me-let me get...
SHIELDS: Am I going to get a chance to speak on this story?
NOVAK: I know you don't want me to get in there...
SHIELDS: I'd like to have you, Bob, but I'd like you to respond to me too, and that is I thought that what Kerry did was the right thing. I thought it was the wrong setting. I thought a rally at midnight-I mean, this is a serious thing. What you want to show is a controlled (UNINTELLIGIBLE). You want to show a sense of determination. You can't show that at a rally, quite frankly. You can't show it with an open (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- but I do say he did say in that statement what I think is the vulnerable part, and that is misleading the nation into war. If he's willing to make that case, and it's going to be, you know, I think that could really change the dynamics of this race.
NOVAK: I agree with you, and he's still recovering from having said even if I knew now...
SHIELDS: That's right. I agree.
NOVAK: ... I'd still vote for it. The thing-you talk to more Democrats than I do. I talk to a lot of Democrats. They're beginning to have doubts about the guy as a candidate, not just the staff around him.
HUNT: You know, we agree on that.
SHIELDS: OK. Steny.
HOYER: A lot of people had doubts, as I recall, before January of last year. They thought John Kerry had disappeared. He came back strong and won.