CBS "Face the Nation" - Transcript

Interview

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Schieffer: And we're back now with two key players in their respective parties, Senator Lindsey Graham. He joins us from Hilton Head, and former Vermont Governor Howard Dean, he's in Culpeper, Virginia this morning. I want to start with you Senator Graham. You just heard David Axelrod basically what he's saying is you can blame it on the tea party. Do you agree with that?

Graham: Well if we'd listened to the tea party we'd have $4 trillion reductions in debt over time and not been downgraded. No, the tea party has come to Washington talking about reducing spending. Thank God they're here. This is the first time we've ever raised the debt ceiling, where we tried to actually reduce spending. That's a good thing, but we're woefully short. The agreement fell well short of what the ratings agencies were looking at. The tea party hasn't destroyed Washington, Washington was destroyed before the tea party got there. The hope is that the tea party and middle of the road people can find common ground to turn this country around before we become Greece. I hope we can.

Schieffer: Well, Howard Dean, I want to ask you what's your take on what David Axelrod just said?

Dean: Well, look, I think the Standard & Poor's downgrade is a good thing because it underlines the fact that you can't get out of this without raising revenues. Sixty percent of the deficit is due to the Bush tax cuts. That's CBO saying that not me. You cannot get out of this without raising revenues. It is impossible and the vast majority of the American people want us to raise revenues, particularly on all those gazillionaires the republican tax cuts mostly benefited. So let's do the right thing. Let's everybody put something into the pot. Now there are some things you can't put into the pot. If Medicare eligibility goes up to 67 percent, you're going to see people running against democrats in primaries. We're not going to penalize old people. We're not going to penalize middle class people anymore while we let all these billionaires get through, and corporations, fifty three billion dollars going to oil companies on our tax payers' money. Why can't we start fixing the economy?

Schieffer: Governor Dean let me ask you this...

Dean: This is ridiculous what's going on here.

Schieffer: Let me ask you this, isn't the President going to have to share some of the responsibility for this. I mean, as I heard David Axelrod this morning, the President's done everything he can do and its all the fault of the other guys. Isn't this a shared responsibility here?

Dean: Well, here's the deal here. I happen to agree with David, I think this is a tea party problem, I think they are totally unreasonable, and doctrinaire and not founded in reality, I think they've been smoking some of that tea and not just drinking it, but the fact of the matter is, the President is going to get the blame and the credit for what goes right whether he deserves or not. That's what Presidents do. So, sure if he going to get some of the blame for this, yes, this is a serious thing, if you look at the Standard and Poor's report, three times they mentioned that our unwillingness to raise revenues was going to make it impossible for us to regain our credit rating. That's a pretty clear signal. The American people are there, the Democrats are there, a lot of reasonable Republicans are there, but they are terrified of these right wing splinter groups, the radical right, because they are so powerful in the primaries.

Schieffer: So what about that Senator Graham, aren't Republicans going to have to share responsibility just as the Democrats are going to have to as Governor Dean concedes?

Graham: Well you can't be fourteen trillion dollars in debt unless both parties are working together to get you there. And the tea party is a result of what's wrong in Washington. They didn't create all this mess. It was an energy created by people seeing the country slipping away and wanting to do something about it. The tea party's for a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution, so am I. I don't have any faith that either party is going to change things until they are made to do so, we need a balanced budget amendment. The truth of the matter is if President Obama, if he was in the Southeastern Conference, he'd be fired as a coach. He would not have his contract renewed. Everything is worse. Unemployment is up by 18 percent. Gas prices are up by 93 percent. Everything, housing prices are down by 12 percent, he's had a chance, we're three years into this and he's failing. It's not the tea Party's fault, what was hope and Change is despair and confusion. People are not creating jobs in this country because they think Howard Dean is going to raise their taxes. If you want to create job, don't raise anybody's taxes. Try to lower spending like the tea party and other people up here want. So the tea party is not the problem, Washington was broken before they got here. I hope they can help us fix it.

Schieffer: Governor Dean, do you think the President's in trouble politically? Is it now an uphill fight for him to be reelected?

Dean: I don't think so, and the reason is: there's a choice here in this election. The choice is between President Obama and the people who got us into this mess in the first place. The fact is that these deficits were created by George Bush's ridiculous tax policies, which some Democrats voted for I have to say. So I do believe everybody has responsibility for this. We got into this together, we need to get out of this together. And that means everybody has to sacrifice. I like Lindsey Graham, and I think he's a positive force in the United States Senate, and a reasonable person. But I could not disagree with him more on this issue of the Tea Party's contribution. The fact of the matter is, and the American people believe this by an overwhelming margin, is everybody has to put something into the pot here to get us out of this. And that includes all those wealthy bankers and corporations that the Republican tax breaks went to ten years ago. We've got to all put something into the pot. It is unfair and unreasonable to ask middle class people and seniors on Medicare to take a big hit, when bankers and oil companies continue to take our taxpayers' money. That is not right, it's not fair, and I don't care how vociferous the Tea Party is, that's not a winning strategy for elections or for the country.

Schieffer: Well let me ask you this, Governor Dean. There's no question that the president has moved more to the center in an effort to resolve this and find compromise. Did he make a mistake doing that? I mean if you were president right now, what would be your tack from here on? To try to get some of the things that Axelrod says need to get done.

Dean: There are some bottom lines. Everybody has to have bottom lines. Can we limit the outlay on social security, yes, but can we take away people's benefits? I don't think so. Can we limit the outflow on Medicare? Yes, by using a payment system that encourages wellness not sicknesses. But you cannot eliminate people from Medicare. You cannot raise the age of Medicare to 67%. That's unfair and outrageous. People wait to get on Medicare because their private insurance is so lousy when they're under 65. So you've got to pick and choose what you can do. We can compromise with reasonable Republicans about restricting entitlements. We are not interested in compromising unless everybody bears their share. And that includes the wealthiest people in America, who by the way lead us into this mess with the outrageous behavior of the major banks.

Schieffer: Senator Graham, are Republicans interesting in resolving this? Or would it be better politically if it didn't get resolved for Republicans?

Graham: Well, it's one thing to talk on TV, it's another thing to produce a budget. Paul Ryan produced a budget, people don't like parts of it, but he had the courage to do it. I respect that. Democrat controlled Senate has never produced a budget in 830 days. The President of the United States produced a budget, it got zero votes in the United States Senate. The President's biggest problem is he's not leading. He's a casual observer at a time when he needs to be fully engaged. Speaker Boehner tried to do a 4 trillion dollar deal, they had $800 billion in revenue on the table, Speaker Boehner put revenue on the table, when he went back to close the deal it was now $1.2 trillion he needed. So at the end of the day, this joint committee should look at what President Obama and Speaker Boehner tried to do to cut $4 trillion in deficits and get their ideas and try to see if we can find a bipartisan way forward. But Obama healthcare wasn't passed by the Tea Party. The Tea Party didn't increase the debts by 35%. The Tea Party is not the problem here. This President has failed to lead and any other private sector enterprise he would be fired. If he was asking to be re-upped to run a football team they wouldn't hire him. If he was trying to be a CEO for a second contract he wouldn't be hired. We've got a chance to win as Republicans but Howard Dean is right: we have to be for things. I'm for a balanced budget amendment that would require both parties to do what we should have done a long time ago. I am for adjusting entitlements and for closing loopholes in deductions, bringing the money back into the treasury, paying down debt. I'm not for raising taxes at a time when we've got 9.2% unemployment. So this president hasn't led, and the tale of the tape is in. Statistically this has been a lousy presidency, only getting worse.

Dean: I actually have a question for Senator Graham. Where are you on Paul Ryan's Medicare plan? Do you want to privatize Medicare like Paul Ryan does?

Graham: Medicare would be saved under Paul Ryan's plan, but if you've got a better idea, put it down in your budget and send it over to me.

Dean: Medicare would be destroyed under...Medicare wouldn't exist under Paul Ryan's plan.

Graham: Hey Howard, have your party lead. Put together a budget for the Senate. Have the Senate Democrats put together a budget and show us what they would do.

Dean: We do that, but you all filibuster the budget and we can't get anything done...

Graham: Have the President do a budget to get at least one, one vote. You haven't put your own budget together. You're sitting on the sidelines blaming others. The truth of the matter, Howard, the reason this Administration is failing...

Dean: You said President Obama would be fired...the truth is if this was a private corporation, President Obama would fire you all.

Schieffer: Gentlemen, I'm very sorry, just when it's getting good, just when it's getting good here, we have to say the clock ran out. Thanks to both of you for being with us this morning. Back with a final thought in a minute.

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