ABC "This Week" - Transcript

Interview

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And we're now joined by a key Republican senator, Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.

Thanks for joining us.

GRAHAM: Thank you.

AMANPOUR: As all of this goes on, we're hearing now from Minority Leader Mitch McConnell that they are working -- they're close to the parameters -- close to presenting something to their members. Is this, what you're hearing, the kind of thing that you could get on board with?

GRAHAM: Yeah, that was actually a pretty good interview. I don't know where I'm going to land, but I do believe that there is a desire by the body as a whole, Republicans and Democrats, to get this done in a way that you don't go in Tuesday with a default.

But there's a lot of history being made here. The average debt ceiling increase in terms of time since 1940 has been nine months. We're going to do 22 months, is the proposal, and $2.3 trillion.

From the Republican Party's point of view, I think we can declare victory in a limited fashion. This is the first time in my lifetime, that I know of, that we're paying for future debt increases dollar for dollar. And that would not have happened without the 2010 election, which was about the size and scope of the government.

But when you tell Tea Party folks and, quite frankly, people like me, we've won, the answer would be, wait a minute, we've changed the culture in terms of raising the debt ceiling, but in the next decade, you're adding $6 trillion to $7 trillion additional money to the debt. The government continues to grow.

So I think what we've been able to achieve is historic in terms of the debt ceiling debate, but we're not -- we're no longer running toward oblivion. We're walking toward it. And now we need to stop and turn around, go back the other way.

AMANPOUR: Every Republican congressman from your own state voted against Speaker Boehner's plan...

GRAHAM: They did.

AMANPOUR: ... even though it did contain the balanced budget amendment.

GRAHAM: Yeah.

AMANPOUR: Do you think they'll get behind this current framework that we've been describing?

GRAHAM: You know, I don't see many conservatives getting behind this, quite frankly, because you don't overall. I've learned in politics the hard way, don't oversell, and don't tell people they should feel good when they have a reason not to feel that great.

AMANPOUR: Will it pass? Will enough get behind it?

GRAHAM: I think half the conference in the Republican House must vote for this. To President Obama, to David...

STEPHANOPOULOS: Only half?

GRAHAM: I think that's the minimum, because I like John Boehner. Maybe he can get more, but it's a $3 trillion package that will allow $7 trillion to be added to the debt over the next decade.

(CROSSTALK)

STEPHANOPOULOS: But you know the politics as well as I do...

GRAHAM: So how much celebrating can you do about that?

STEPHANOPOULOS: In order to get something like this through that does not include -- it looks like this will not include revenue increases...

GRAHAM: No revenue. That's a win.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I know where you stand on that.

GRAHAM: That's a win.

STEPHANOPOULOS: That is a win. It would only get half?

GRAHAM: My belief is, what do I tell people at home who say, what did you do about getting us out of debt? I slowed down how much debt you add. Instead of adding $10 trillion, we're going to add $7 trillion. I slowed down the growth of government, but it still grows every year. For those who came out to vote in 2010 to say, get the size and scope of Washington changed in the new direction...

(CROSSTALK)

STEPHANOPOULOS: If you only get half, this could go...

(CROSSTALK)

GRAHAM: It doesn't go in the new direction.

STEPHANOPOULOS: With only half the Republican conference, this could go down.

GRAHAM: Well, I'll tell you, our Democratic friends provided no votes to John. There's no plan by the president. Harry Reid's plan is going nowhere.

AMANPOUR: But you say there's no plan, sir, but he's moved so far, in fact, entirely to your side.

GRAHAM: His -- his -- his rhetoric has moved. The reason everybody's moved in town...

AMANPOUR: But this is all spending cuts.

GRAHAM: Well, let me tell you. There's people in my party moved. There are people in my party who really are not that excited about cutting government...

STEPHANOPOULOS: You're not ready to vote for this, are you?

GRAHAM: I can't -- from -- from a big picture, I'm not ready to vote for this. And let me tell you why -- excuse me, George -- the bottom line here is, the people who got elected are not excited about being Republicans or Democrats, particularly on the Republican side. They're excited about results.

And it is fair to say, we've achieved a significant change in the way Washington works by paying for the debt ceiling increase and not passing it onto the credit card. We have not achieved entitlement change. We have not reduced the size and scope of government. We're going in the wrong direction at a slower pace, and for a lot of people, that is not winning.

AMANPOUR: You're an internationalist. We've talked before about all sorts of things like Afghanistan and other such places.

GRAHAM: Yes.

AMANPOUR: Look, you saw the soldiers yesterday -- and I asked David Plouffe this -- I mean, desperately asking their commander, Admiral Mullen, whether they're going to get paid, and he said, "I can't tell you."

GRAHAM: Well, I can. I can tell them. Here's what -- I wish I'd have been there. I would have said, not only are you going to get paid, but Admiral Mullen said the number-one national security issue facing this country is debt. And I wish we would have followed on with what we said.

If you believe that we're so far in debt we're going to become a weak country and can't afford to defend ourselves, I would have told the Marine, you're going to get paid, but by God we're going to change the reason your children will never have the American dream. So, young man, we're going to pay you, but we're going to change Washington so your country doesn't become weak and ineffective and have more debt that your children can afford to pay. That's what I would have told the Marines.

AMANPOUR: You must also worry, given your extensive connections around the world, about the way the world is seeing this country right now. I mean...

GRAHAM: I'm not worried about democracy. Here's what I would tell...

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: Not democracy. About -- they say a political system gone mad.

GRAHAM: You've got people in this country who just won a big election. They weren't kidding when they said they wanted to come to Washington to change the size and scope of the government. Then you've got people who've been there forever saying, you don't understand, you don't get it.

Well, let me tell you, I do understand: 43 cents on every dollar being borrowed, we're going to become Greece in the next 15 or 20 years. Medicare and Social Security is going to fail. So what I would tell anybody around the world, thank God these new people are here, because do you want America to become Greece? Do you want our debt instruments not to be well received throughout the country? Do you want us holding our debt, never to turn around while we're in debt to $14.3 trillion? This deal -- and it is better than a lot of people thought, but is not nearly where the problem is.

AMANPOUR: All right. Senator, on that note, thank you very much, indeed, for joining us.

GRAHAM: Thank you.

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