MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

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MATTHEWS: Senator Durbin, your view on that charge. Is it true?

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL), MAJORITY WHIP: Well, I can tell you Senator Mitch McConnell started the session with a very clear pronouncement. His highest legislative priority was to make sure that Barack Obama was a one-term president. That"s a quote, Chris.

And then we take a look at what"s happened on the floor. We bring up garden-variety bills that used to pass by voice vote, like the extension of the Economic Development Administration, which creates job cross America, they inundate them with 100 amendments on every topic under the sun and then won"t allow us to go forward with the final passage of the bill.

You have to say to yourself, if they"re trying to help create jobs in America, why are they killing the bills on the floor of the Senate that will create jobs?

MATTHEWS: Why are they opposing--well, let me ask you the question wide open. It seems to me businesses always likes to have lower payroll taxes because they have to pay half of them. They have to pay the employer"s end of it. Why wouldn"t they want a tax cut in that regard? And they seem to be opposing that, and that"s an Obama plan.

DURBIN: I think, frankly, you"ve just answered your own question. It"s an Obama plan. It seems to me that anything this administration comes forward with, the Republicans are going to oppose.

Think what they said about the president"s stimulus package, how much they hated it. They failed to acknowledge 40 percent of the president"s stimulus package were tax cuts. That"s supposed to be the mantra of the Republican Party. The president said, Put tax cuts in there. Not good enough.

Unfortunately, unless you pull together in this tough economy, we"re not going to get out of the ditch.

MATTHEWS: Let me ask you about this thing that I--I"m usually--I watch these things like you do. Even though you"re a partisan leader on the Hill, you have to look at these somewhat objectively. I am stunned to hear that the Republicans on Capitol Hill are now for the first time denying there is any real deadline for coming up with a debt ceiling bill, that it"s just--any deadline, they deny exists. They"re saying things like, Well, we can always borrow some other way. We can always put it off.

It seems to me that they want to see a crash in the economy as the deadline--in other words, go right up to the edge and then over the edge, and then they"ll cut a deal. Have you heard these arguments?

DURBIN: Chris...

MATTHEWS: "The Washington Examiner," conservative newspaper, this morning lead editorial said, There is no deadline. You just go right up to the edge, is basically what they"re saying, have the catastrophe, and then they"ll pick up the pieces. This is Republican argument.

DURBIN: Chris, let me tell you something. If we don"t extend the debt ceiling before August 2nd, we"re going to find ourselves in a deeper recession than we just are escaping from. If we don"t exceed that debt ceiling on August 2nd, interest rates are going up not only on government borrowing but on borrowing by average Americans to buy car or a home or to expand a business.

Now, let me tell you that will be an economic catastrophe, and we"ll be faced with making hard choices in the month of August. We"ll have $170 billion to spend and over $300 billion in bills. So who do we pay? Social Security recipients, Medicare, Medicaid, our troops that are fighting, federal employees like air traffic controllers and prison guards? It really comes down to stark choices.

What the president said yesterday is he"s impatient. He wants our Senate and House to come together in Washington and get this job done--not at the last minute, but in time so that we can send the message to the world that America is in business and moving forward.

MATTHEWS: Let"s hear the other side. Here"s Texas senator John Cornyn, chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee, taking on President Obama today. Here he is. Let"s listen.

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SEN. JOHN CORNYN ®, TEXAS: This is a grand opportunity for Democrats and Republicans to come together to do the nation"s business, to be serious, not to be reckless, not to give demagogic speeches like the president gave yesterday as part of his reelection campaign. Absolutely disgraceful! He should be ashamed! I respect the office of the president of the United States, but I think the president has diminished that office and himself by giving the kind of campaign speeches that he gave yesterday.

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MATTHEWS: So what"s up with this use of the term "demagogue"? That"s pretty strong language. I remember that was almost out of the question for politician to call another one, certainly the president, a demagogue?

DURBIN: It"s really over the line. I think Senator Cornyn got a little too emotional in that speech. I like John. But I was on the floor when he started to give it, and I shook my head, thinking this is not going to have a happy ending. Some of us in public life get carried away with our rhetoric and occasionally go too far. He went too far.

What the president said yesterday was he was impatient. He wanted this problem solved. He understands we have a deficit and we have to work together to solve it.

When Congressman Eric Cantor, the House Republican leader, walks out on bipartisan budget negotiations two weeks ago, that is not an indication of good faith or bipartisanship. He threw it in the lap of Speaker John Boehner and said, Now go talk to the president. This round of bargaining is over.

I can understand the president"s a little frustrated. I think I am, too. Most Americans are. It"s time for both sides to sit together in a room and not walk out.

MATTHEWS: Thank you so much, Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois, the Senate majority whip. Thank you for joining us.

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