MSNBC "Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

Interview

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Congressman, you first. Where do you stand on this announcement? Is it just a smidgeon of a drawdown? Does it satisfy you? And how do you think Democrats are going to respond to it?

REP. PETER WELCH (D), VERMONT: Well, it is really not enough. Let"s go back to where we went into Afghanistan. It was, one, to get Osama bin Laden. Mission accomplished. Two: to degrade and disrupt al Qaeda. Mission accomplished.

Then, our mission morphed into nation-building and that"s when we had the doubling of the troops and then surge. President Obama went from 34,000 to 100,000 troops. And that"s in pursuit of a policy of nation-building which makes no sense when you have a dispersed and decentralized threat.

Terrorists are not nation state centered in Afghanistan. They"re in various parts of the world.

So, it really makes no sense to have a nation-building strategy.

If the president tomorrow night announces a change from nation-building to counterterrorism, then the troops strength would be measured according to what was required in order to accomplish that goal. And it"s way, way below I think what the president is talking about.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Greenwald, is this a political move or is it a strategic move? And where does it match up with where the American people are?

ROBERT GREENWALD, BRAVE NEW FILMS: Well, the administration and the politicians for the most part in Washington are far, far behind the American people. Seventy-two percent of the American people now believe we"re fighting two new wars. And most importantly, Ed, these wars are not making us safer and people don"t believe they are.

So, how we continue to spend $2 billion every single week on the war in Afghanistan really defies logic. And if you ask anybody, no one has a real explanation. Well, the only reason we"re there is because we there.

So, we need to all be much more aggressive and assertive in telling elected officials: you work for us. Get the troops out.

SCHULTZ: Congressman Welch, is this going to be a political problem for the president?

I mean, I"ve taken phone calls on my radio show. Base Democrats out there think that this has gone way too far. They"ve said they aren"t going to campaign for the president. They"re not going to work hard for him. They feel they"ve been let down because he said he would end this stuff.

And now, this is not a very big number. Maybe, it"ll be a bigger number tomorrow.

Your thoughts? Will it be a political problem?

WELCH: Well, it could be a political problem. What we"re seeing in Congress is the Republicans are getting the message. They are strongly against this, some of them for fiscal reasons, $2 billion a week. That"s just more money than we can or should spend.

Others from the national security question, why are we nation-building when by the way the Karzai government is corrupt, and ineffective, and cause our soldiers who are over there dying "occupiers"? So, there is a bipartisan coalition that"s developing here. And you could see that one of the Republican presidential candidates gain a lot of traction by saying, we"ve got to be much more aggressive on paying attention at home.

SCHULTZ: So, Mr. Greenwald, if there is a bipartisan feeling out there about ending this operation in Afghanistan--why is the president reluctant to not bring home a massive amount of troops? Like 50,000 or 60,000 now?

GREENWALD: Well, you know, something about wars, Ed, and Washington, D.C., Vietnam, Iraq, now Afghanistan--the people in D.C. and the think tanks who bear responsibility for creating a bipartisan ideology, where they believe in these wars. They start to sign up for them.

But that"s where I think this wonderful, wonderful thing called democracy works. And I"m hearing from people also, Ed, on my Twitter, on my Facebook, and it"s the same message, which is we elected a Democrat. We want the wars to end. And how--how can you spend a million dollars on one troop for one year and you"re firing teachers and getting rid of policemen? It profoundly makes no sense.

SCHULTZ: Well, I think this resolution by the mayors of this country speaks volumes about where the people are in this country. I mean, they"re going home. They"re hearing it on Main Street.

Congressman, speaking of wars--do you believe President Obama needs congressional authority to do what we"re doing in Libya?

WELCH: Yes, I do. I absolutely do. I mean, to say it"s not hostilities when you"re spending upwards of $1 billion, when you"re doing extensive bombing, when you"re literally trying to take out Gadhafi, those are hostilities. And the War Powers Act is about congressional authority and whether the decision about committing our men and women and our money to hostilities is going to be a decision made by Congress.

SCHULTZ: And, finally, Congressman, I want to ask you. I mean, this low number seems like a political move and not a strategic move.

WELCH: Well, that"s exactly right, Ed. The strategic question is: do we double down or continue on this policy of nation-building?

SCHULTZ: Yes.

WELCH: That"s the question and that"s what we have to watch for in the president"s announcement.

SCHULTZ: Congressman Peter Welch of Vermont and also filmmaker Robert Greenwald--great to have you with us tonight. Thanks so much.

WELCH: Thank you.

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