MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

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Mr. Clyburn, with all respect, it looks like there"s a battle royale now between the leadership of Democratic leader Pelosi and Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the chairman of the Democratic National Party--they want Weiner out. He"s not leaving. When is this going to come to a head?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC), ASST. MINORITY LEADER: Well, look, Chris -

thank you so much for having me today. I don"t know when it comes to a head, but I do believe that there is going to be a meeting of the leadership later this evening, and I think there"s a meeting of the caucus called for sometime tomorrow.

I would hope that something comprehensive can get done, something that will be acted on by the total caucus because I think all of this four, five members here, three or four members tomorrow, calling for resignations or what have you, whatever, is not good. It"s not good for us here in the Congress. It"s not good for the country.

I think we ought to get this behind us so we can get back to trying to do what is necessary to get our economic house in order so that we can build this country to what it ought to be.

MATTHEWS: Do you believe the Democratic caucus, or either party caucus, has it with its rights to ask this member to leave?

CLYBURN: No, I don"t know that. What I do know...

MATTHEWS: But you said the other day it"s up to the caucus.

CLYBURN: No, I said the caucus may have something to say about this because the last time, a few years ago, we had a similar issue--wasn"t exactly this salacious, but it was a very serious issue--the caucus acted. There are certain things that a caucus can do.

Remember, every member of Congress has two sets of constituents. Getting elected from your congressional district is one thing, but you also have constituents who vote for you up here within the caucus, or if you are a Republican, within the conference. And these people have votes on your future, as well.

And so I think that his members--or his constituents in the district may be siding with him to the tune of the 57 percent, I heard. The fact of the matter is, he"s got a set of constituents up here that"s called the Democratic caucus, and they also can vote on his future, as well.

MATTHEWS: The great Adam Clayton Powell was, I believe, expelled from Congress. He was reelected by his constituency. What"s--could that be something that happens down the road? Could you find a situation where you guys ask him to leave, he leaves, but then he gets reelected?

CLYBURN: That"s absolutely true, but I don"t know that we"ll ask him to leave. I think that we can do certain things. We give out committee assignments...

MATTHEWS: Take away his committee assignments? You can do that?

CLYBURN: Yes. And there other persons in the caucus who have and precedent was set a couple years ago, you may recall, when a member was removed from the Ways and Means Committee because of a scandal. So I believe that Mr. Weiner serves on a very important and exclusive committee. And so there are certain things that the caucus can do, which I would hope we would just act once and for all...

MATTHEWS: OK.

CLYBURN: ... and get it behind us and stop talking about it.

MATTHEWS: Suppose he hears you. He sees the committee--the caucus take away all his committee assignments, and he says, I"m staying. I"ll be a member of Congress anyway. What do you do then?

CLYBURN: Well, that would be perfectly within his rights, but I think that the caucus, the Democratic caucus, will have acted within its power to act, and I think the American people will understand that.

MATTHEWS: Do you that would remove it as an election issue? Can"t you see the Republicans running next fall, saying you"re the party of Anthony Weiner, you"re the party that has Anthony Weiner as one of its members? And what do you do then?

CLYBURN: Well, they may say that, but we can say the same thing about some of the members on the other side, some of whom are still in the body. So I think that--for instance, the senator that resigned the other day. I think it would be foolish for us to be running against a senator who resigned or a senator who may have gotten reelected after a sex scandal, as well.

I think that what we ought to do is do what we can do as a caucus, and then leave it up to his constituents to decide whether or not he ought to continue to serve.

MATTHEWS: OK. Let"s take a look at White House spokesman Jay Carney on the Weiner scandal. Let"s listen to him. He"s the president"s press secretary.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president feels--as feel at the White House this is a distraction. Obviously, as Congressman Weiner has said himself, his behavior was inappropriate. Dishonesty was inappropriate. But the president is focused on his job, which is getting this economy continuing to grow, creating jobs, and obviously, ensuring the safety and security of the American people.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Do you think it"s something you would look forward to if Weiner got back on the stage, like he was until a couple weeks ago, on a show like this all the time, all the time being the congressman from New York, but really the most out-there Democrat on big issues like the economy and Medicare? Would that make you comfortable?

CLYBURN: I don"t think so. I believe that...

MATTHEWS: You can"t stop him.

CLYBURN: No, we can"t. But I think that the leader of our caucus determines who can and will speak for our caucus. I think our caucus collectively can make those determinations. I cannot see--if my caucus were ever to ask me not to speak on an issue, I would certainly not speak on that issue. And so I--no, we can"t stop anybody from saying whatever they want to say, but we certainly can determine whether or not they"ll speak on behalf of the caucus.

MATTHEWS: You know, I hate to break it to you, but some other network can put Eliot Spitzer on television.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: I"m telling you, you can"t stop the networks from inviting who they want to invite. I know it"s ludicrous. By the way, that was ludicrous that he"s even talking about this case.

Anyway, here"s Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the Democratic National Committee chair, on "MEET THE PRESS" yesterday. I want you to react to this. Let"s listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D-FL), DNC CHAIR: At the end of the day, you know, a member of Congress makes their own decision, and that"s certainly going to be up to Anthony Weiner. But we have made clear that he needs to resign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Who"s going to be in power longer, Congressman? Maybe this sounds frivolous, but maybe you have a theory. Who"s going to be in power longer, Moammar Gadhafi or Mr. Weiner?

(LAUGHTER)

CLYBURN: I don"t know about that, but I will tell you this. I would hope that Gadhafi would leave at least by tomorrow morning.

MATTHEWS: OK. Thank you, sir. It"s nice to you have on again. Good sense of humor there. Thank you, Congressman Jim Clyburn, one of the--assistant leader of the Democratic Party in the Congress.

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