MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: I don"t think it was just the election last night. I think it"s poll after poll and I think it"s the meetings that senators and Congress people are something with their constituents.

The bottom line is that what the Ryan budget would do immediately in terms of the donut hole in 10 years for everybody else who will get Medicare at that point is to decimate a program that is working very, very well for ordinary Americans right now, converted into a voucher program, charge senior citizens $6,000 a year more as they begin negotiations with a private insurance company.

Most Americans think that that is a very bad idea. Imagine somebody in 10 years at the age of 65 getting an $8,000 coupon to go out to a private insurance company with an income of $15,000 or $16,000 a year. What happens to you after your first three days in the hospital?

So the point is in my view, Thomas, clearly we have to move toward deficit reduction. But we have to do it in a way that calls for shared sacrifice. What the Ryan budget does is not only end Medicare as we know it, slash Medicaid, which would be a disaster for seniors in nursing homes and for kids, make major cuts in education, environmental protection, et cetera.

At the end of the day, it also, amazingly enough, provides a trillion dollars in tax breaks for the richest people in this country who today are doing phenomenally well. So, you make drastic cuts for working families and low-income people. You give tax breaks to the rich. The American people do not agree with that approach.

ROBERTS: Sir, Rachel Maddow interviewed Harry Reid today. She asked him about Democratic support for some cuts in Medicare.

Take a listen to this and I have a question for you on the back side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL MADDOW, TRMS HOST: Steny Hoyer is saying that Medicare must be on the table for discussions about deficit cutting.

Do Democrats have a clear message that they will for this--

(CROSSTALK)

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: Yes, Steny would--just reflect back just a few moments ago, we saved one half trillion dollars in our health care plan as it relates to Medicare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: All right. So, sir, there"s people out there who would say that the only way Republicans can rescue the Ryan budget is for Ryan to actually even run for president. Is that something you would agree with when--right now at this point in time, it"s really about saving face?

SANDERS: Well, I think in fairness to the Congressman Ryan, he has brought forth a very bold idea which represents what Republicans in my view are about. Tax breaks for billionaires, no cuts in military spending despite the fact we"ve tripled our defense budget since 1997, doing away with Medicare as we know it and massive cuts for programs that tens of millions of Americans depend upon.

I think, frankly, whether Ryan runs for president or somebody else, I
think the American people should begin that discussion about the future of
our country. Do we give tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires and
cut programs that working families need or is there a fairer way to move
toward a balanced budget? I believe that at a time when we lose $100
billion every year because corporations and wealthy people use tax havens
in the Cayman Islands and Bermuda, when you have corporation after
corporation making billions in profits and paying nothing in taxes, when
the richest people today who are doing phenomenally well have the lowest
effective tax rate that they have ever had in the history of this country -
I think there are ways to move toward a balanced budget calling for shared sacrifice in ways that are fair. And I think this is what the American people believe.

ROBERTS: When you talk about moving toward a balanced budget--as an independent, do you think the 40 Republicans who vote forward the Ryan budget are going to end up paying for it politically in the end?

SANDERS: Yes, I do. I think the more--despite what Congressman Ryan says, the more people look at that budget, it is not just Medicare.

ROBERTS: Right.

SANDERS: It is not just savage cuts in Medicaid. You have middle class families today who are seeing a decline in their standard of living, desperately trying to figure out a way to send their kids to college. Here"s plan savage cuts in the Pell grant program, savage cuts in nutrition programs, savage cuts in housing.

I think the more people who look at the Ryan budget, the more they are going to understand how bad it is. And if the Republicans want to defend that budget, I say--go for it. You do it.

I think they are going to lose badly in the next election if they do that.

ROBERTS: And all but four Republicans in the House and 40 Senate Democrats voted to end Medicare as we know it now. So, do you think that they are still going to try to say this was just a first step?

SANDERS: I"m not sure what they will say, but at the end of the day, in a moment, Thomas, where our economy is so unstable, where the middle class is in steep decline, where people are so uncertain about the future, they want to hold on to the foundations of our social safety net. That is Social Security and Medicare, and their right to want to hold on to those programs. They are working for the American people.

In my view, as I"ve just said, we can and should move toward deficit reduction very boldly. But you"ve got to do it by asking the wealthiest people in this country and the largest corporations who are making huge profits to start paying their fair share of taxes. You have to start cutting back on military spending, ending the war in Afghanistan.

There are ways you can move toward a balanced budget without devastating working families.

ROBERTS: Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont--great to see you, sir, tonight. Thanks for your time.

SANDERS: Thank you.

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