CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Senator Dick Durbin is here with us in Atlanta. He's assistant majority leader, the Democratic whip. And he's also on the Foreign Relations Committee and was a member of the presidential debt commission.

And, sir, it's a pleasure to have you in Atlanta. It's such a treat. We always see you in Washington.

I want to begin with the big news this week. Tell me. It was Sunday night, 9:00 p.m. You're home in Springfield, and you get a phone call.

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL), MAJORITY WHIP: I did, from Vice President Biden. And I thought, what in the world is going on here? And he said, I just wanted to give you a heads-up. We have captured and killed Osama bin Laden.

I said, you're kidding me. No, he said, the president is going to make an announcement in a few minutes.

It took a little bit longer, but it was an amazing thing. I stayed up for it, and a lot of Americans did. It was an amazing thing to catch the most high-profile terrorist on the face of Earth. It's something we have been trying to do for 10 years. BALDWIN: You use the words captured and killed. So, I hear captured. That tells me he was in custody. In terms of the details that you know, did we execute him?

DURBIN: Well, I can tell you that, under the circumstances, when you consider this man killed 3,000 Americans in cold blood and boasted about later on how many others he was going to kill, you -- you have to understand, when our soldiers went on the scene there, they were expecting the worse.

If there were truly Osama bin Laden, they didn't know what they would run into, weapons and bombs. And it's the dark of the night. And let me tell you, if we're going to err, I'm erring on the side of our soldiers. They did their job, and they did it right.

BALDWIN: So, even though some of your more liberal colleagues have already started expressing concern, if he had been executed, that that is very worrisome for them.

If that had been the case --

DURBIN: I don't see it that way. This is the heat of war. He was a war criminal and had been responsible for the deaths of so many innocent people.

He was ruthless. And we knew that he would kill, if given a chance. No, our soldiers did the right thing.

BALDWIN: We found out yesterday that bin Laden and his wife, his youngest wife, apparently had been living in this particular compound in Abbottabad for some five years. And so obviously a lot of questions about what Pakistan knew, right? Not just the government but ISI, their intelligence arm.

Do you think there was any complicity?

DURBIN: I don't know that, but I could tell you if the most wanted person on the face of the earth were living six blocks away from West Point Academy, military academy it would raise a question of whether the United States would know or should have known he was there. And the same think is true in Pakistan.

In this situation, this man we knew was guilty of killing not only of the killing of Americans but Pakistanis and Muslims all over the world. And the fact that he was there for such a long period of time undetected, I tell you, a lot of questions have been raised. BALDWIN: Your colleague, Carl Levin, just this morning said, I think high levels, high levels being the intelligence service, at high levels they knew it. Obviously, he doesn't have proof, we don't have proof, but if there ever comes a time where there is proof, do you think that that would be reason enough to yank funding from Pakistan?

DURBIN: Well, we need Pakistan and we need their cooperation, but we don't want to waste our money. If they are going to help us catch terrorists, if they're going to help us bring peace to Afghanistan, then we need their engagement. But if this is a matter of sending money and they are not engaged, that's another story.

For the time being, though, we ought to pursue what happened here, let's do a real investigation of it, but we shouldn't write off the Pakistanis. It's far better for the world and for United States if we're working with them.

BALDWIN: What would you need to see in front of you in order to say, yes, we need to stop funding?

DURBIN: I have to see absolute complicity, and I'm not sure that's ever going to happen. The former president, Musharraf, I heard an interview with him this morning, and he said I want to know how this happened, because it happened while I was there.

So if it were known, I don't think it reached the highest levels of their government, if he's telling the truth.

BALDWIN: How does, beyond national psyche, how does the death of bin Laden affect our war on terror, and specifically Afghanistan?

DURBIN: Well, it has a dramatic impact. We think there are about 100 active al Qaeda members left in Afghanistan, and now the head of their organization is gone.

And I might add that because of the hard work of our intelligence community and military, many other levels of leadership is gone as well. Al Qaeda is being hollowed out. We can't take it for granted that they are gone, but it's a much different organization than when they attacked us 10 years ago. I hope we can reach the point and soon where our troops come home from Afghanistan.

BALDWIN: Do you say, come July, get out and get out quickly?

DURBIN: I think the president's promise is one that should be kept. Start bring troops home. The Afghans at some point have to stand up for their own nation and future.

We cannot police the world. We can't be responsible for bringing Afghanistan into the 21st century. We have to do our part to bring them stability and they've build on it.

BALDWIN: Even if some of your colleagues on Capitol Hill say Afghanistan is still way too fragile, we haven't finished the mission, will there ever be a sense of mission accomplished in Afghanistan? DURBIN: This is the longest war in the history of the United States. It costs us in the range of $10 billion to $12 billion a month, and more importantly, we're losing American lives. There comes a point when we come home.

There are other dangerous nations on earth, and if the United States is setting out to go to everyone, we couldn't recruit enough people in our military.

BALDWIN: So we're waiting on the president. And as you joked with me moments ago, it's not the first time you've been waiting for the president.

And again, I just want to remind our viewers, these are live pictures out of Fort Campbell, Kentucky. We're awaiting the president there.

And just quickly, if I can tell you on-the-spot ask you, I know the president is there and speaking about Afghanistan, a lot of these members of the 101st Airborne are there, he's saying thank you.

What message do you have to these guys?

DURBIN: Well, how proud we are of what they've done for us, and the fact that over and over again we say thank you. When you have a member in your family in the military, as I do in Afghanistan, when you have friends who have been there, you understand the sacrifice each and every person is making in serving our military. And equally important, the sacrifice the family makes. The anxiety they feel while they are being activated. The concern they have. Shipping off packages and letters trying to keep in touch with them.

But that just shows you the sacrifice they make voluntarily for this country. And then given a mission of such global importance and executing it flawlessly, as far as I'm concerned, with the cooperation of the intelligence community shows when the United States says if you come after us we're coming after you, and we kept our word.

BALDWIN: Senator Durbin will you stick around? I have more.

DURBIN: I will.

BALDWIN: I have more for you, but I have to get a quick -- actually, I'm hearing Dan Lothian is standing by. Stand by, cause I do want to talk with you about taxes, debt ceiling --

DURBIN: How about the Chicago Bulls here in Atlanta? This is the big game.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

BALDWIN: President Obama just wrapping up his speech there in Fort Campbell, Kentucky. What a speech it was.

I want to bring in Senator Dick Durbin who has been sitting here during this entire time watching this whole speech with me. There the president goes along with vice president. Jackets off. Rousing round of applause from those troops there. First, Senator, just your impressions?

DURBIN: What a great moment. You know this president, I think, was being as honest as he could be with the American people and these troops. This was the riskiest decision he ever made as president.

BALDWIN: Going in Sunday.

DURBIN: He put his faith in those men and women in uniform and those like them who were part it and he came to say thank you that they didn't let him down. They didn't let America down. It was a great expression of gratitude from the president and the nation.

BALDWIN: In the speech,. the president said, looking at my notes, he said we're making progress, we're going defeat al Qaeda. And when you and I spoke before the president came out, with regard to getting our troops out of Afghanistan and starting to really draw down come July, would you be willing to take the troops out even if al Qaeda isn't fully defeated?

DURBIN: Listen, I think we can put all the members of al Qaeda in Afghanistan in this room. It's a small number. We can't ever give up the fact that they are dangerous to us, America and the people in Afghanistan, but we're closing in on them. We've taken the head of the snake and beating them down. We've still got work to do and we need to do it with the Afghans. They need to step up with us, their military, their police. They have be as focused as we are in keeping Afghanistan safe. BALDWIN: Also though in terms of those opportunities, one opportunity one may say is the fact that Bin Laden is dead, now we have the opportunity. The United States has the opportunity to reconcile, to negotiate with the Taliban.

It's widely known or surmised the head of the reclusive head of the Taliban Mohamed Omar is in Pakistan. Perhaps this is one way to get him out in talking to the U.S., do you agree? Is that an opportunity?

DURBIN: I don't think we missed the chance to see if it can work. If in fact we can sit down with the Taliban with an agreement that they will honor the government that is in Afghanistan, that they will not engaging acts of terrorism, that they will treat women with dignity in their country. If they are prepared to do that then perhaps something can happen. Should we try? Of course, we should.

BALDWIN: And if they are not?

DURBIN: Then the battle continues.

BALDWIN: The battle continues. Do we have Dan Lothian standing by, guys? What more, beyond this speech and certainly he's very thankful to all of these troops but in terms of, you know, lights off, we're out, Afghanistan, is there such a thing as mission accomplished?

DURBIN: I don't think any president is going step up and stand under that banner soon. President Bush, as I one it, looked back and said that was a mistake. He was branded with it for the longest period of time. They spoke too soon, claimed too much.

I think presidents are careful now, President Bush since then and President Obama now not to make these claims. Let me just add one other point. There's a group that cannot be shown on camera that deserves equal billing and gratitude and that's the intelligence community.

When you read about a 10-year effort to find this man and all of the work and all of the danger that they face to bring that day about, to allow our military to step in that of gratitude should go to our intelligence community as well.

BALDWIN: We learned from the vice president at a dinner two nights ago and he said there were a number of members of Congress who were in on this operation. Were you part of that?

DURBIN: No, there were 16, limited number of those on the intelligence committee, which I once served on and the leadership. And the good news is the vice president said they knew for months and not a word leaked. Everyone understood. I talked to Senator Harry Reid about this, the gravity and importance of this mission. BALDWIN: No leaks at all. Senator Durbin, thank you so much for sitting here --

DURBIN: For this historic moment.

BALDWIN: -- for this historic moment. What a moment to share with you. Number two Democrat in the Senate.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source