MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews " - Transcript
Interview
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ATTHEWS: Congresswoman, I just think there"s a question here, and I wonder why the president is not being so--not being tough enough. And I usually don"t say this. Basically, what Ryan is doing is what Ronald Reagan wanted to do way back in the early "60s when Kennedy was talking about health care for older people, retired people, kill Medicare.
REP. JAN SCHAKOWSKY (D), ILLINOIS: That"s right.
MATTHEWS: Kill the government program that pays for health care.
People love Medicare. Why are the Republicans attacking it?
SCHAKOWSKY: Well, actually, I think they"re going to have a big political problem because, in fact, they are abolishing Medicare with this plan. And I really think it would be a very hard sell because, as you say, the American people overwhelmingly love their Medicare.
And you"re right, Ronald Reagan campaigned against--he was a lobbyist against Medicare. But now doctors are reliant on Medicare, and certainly seniors. Why is he picking on old people at the same time as he"s not doing anything about tax cuts for the wealthiest, tax breaks for oil companies, and companies that are outsourcing our jobs?
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MATTHEWS: -- a young guy like Paul Ryan, who is healthy as hell, and he says, oh, great, we will give you a little voucher to help you buy medical insurance when you"re 83 years old.
Give me a break. Who is going to sell you the policy? I"m sorry.
You"re the expert.
SCHAKOWSKY: Give me--yes, give me a break is right.
And the median income for people over 65 years old in our country, you know what it is, Chris? It"s $19,000 a year. That is with everything. Those are the people. And frail elderly, you"re going to send out in the market to choose among all the health insurance companies, and then some measly amount of money is going to be sent to them, and if they don"t have enough coverage, then too bad for them?
And the thing that really frosts me is that what Paul Ryan says is that this is a moral issue. I agree with him that it"s a moral issue. Do nothing about the wealthiest, and take it out on the backs of people who make a median income of $19,000 a year? It"s unconscionable. And it"s silly. And I don"t think it"s going to have the political support that he wants.
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Don"t the Republican members of your Congress, of the House, have to vote for the Ryan plan to kill Medicare? Don"t they have to do it in the first budget resolution?
SCHAKOWSKY: Well, as you can see now, it"s a party in disarray, as we move toward the 2011 budget.
So I think, before Paul Ryan is going to absolutely--actually going to be able to put this on the floor, there"s going to be a lot of debate in the caucus. And it"s going to be even closer to the 2012 election.
Let me say one other thing. The Ryan plan doesn"t save money in Medicare. It just shifts costs in Medicare to the old people.
MATTHEWS: Of course.
SCHAKOWSKY: What we did in the Affordable Care Act, we actually reduced the cost by not cutting--and not cutting benefits for the elderly.
MATTHEWS: Don"t we need a little more original thinking here about the rising cost of health care than simply cutting it? Isn"t there a problem of how we finance health care in this country we have got to come up with?
I don"t know what it is, but, I mean, doctors are not getting rich, I have noticed. The friends who are mine who are doctors, the doctors that treat me are certainly not in the same position a doctor was 10 or 15, 20 years ago. They"re just not. It"s not a get-rich-quick plan to be a doctor anymore.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Your thoughts, Congresswoman.
SCHAKOWSKY: But isn"t it ironic--isn"t it ironic that the Republicans like Paul Ryan were criticizing the Democrats all last year, before the election, that Democrats cut Medicare by half a trillion dollars. Well, of course, we didn"t cut any benefits, but we did reduce the costs by eliminating waste, fraud and abuse and eliminating the overpayments that we made to private insurance companies.
MATTHEWS: Right.
SCHAKOWSKY: Now they have turned around and they said, well, we"re going to be the ones that are going to eliminate Medicare.
MATTHEWS: You just said the worst words I have ever heard you ever speak, Congresswoman. Did you say waste, fraud and abuse?
(LAUGHTER)
MATTHEWS: That is the biggest line of malarkey that every conservative since Ronald Reagan has said. I"m going get rid of government spending by getting rid of waste, fraud and abuse. You"re saying that actually happens?
SCHAKOWSKY: Well, actually, Secretary Sebelius has created a new--I think everybody who has been in a hospital knows that they look at their bill that there are things that are on there that shouldn"t be. But Medicare pays for it.
MATTHEWS: All right.
SCHAKOWSKY: I think there actually are billions of dollars in Medicare and actually in Medicaid. It"s mostly provider waste fraud and abuse. Yes, there is.
MATTHEWS: Well, I just think every time a check gets written to pay for Medicare, it goes to a doctor or a nurse or somebody who works at a hospital. And, by the way, I think they"re good people.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Anyway, thank you, Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky.
SCHAKOWSKY: Thank you.
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