MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript
Interview
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REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: Yes, sir. Always good.
SCHULTZ: What is justice in your opinion right now? What should we be doing as a country?
ELLISON: Justice is not supporting or propping up any particular
leader, hearing the cries of the people of Egypt, and letting and doing
everything we can to facilitate the voice of those people to be able to do
what we do in America, which is to pick our leaders. I don"t think it"s
asking too much to call for free and fair elections as soon as possible. I
don"t think it"s asking for too much to say that, to condemn any excessive
any force used on protesters, house arrests of dissenters, people who are calling for justice and the free exercise of expression in Egypt. I don"t think that is asking too much.
And, by the way, I do--
(CROSSTALK)
SCHULTZ: Congressman, what about the military aid? Should the United States continue to fork out money to this regime?
ELLISON: Well, let me tell you this--I think that, look, you know, we send a lot of money to Egypt but very little ends up in the hands of the average Egyptian. I mean, what about economic development? We give aid around the world so that people can pull themselves out of dire poverty--yet Egypt, a very big country, still has a lot of people who are struggling in poverty.
And if you talk to Egyptians, one of the things that they"ll tell you is that, hey, look, you know, the price of bread went up, but my pay hasn"t gone up and this is, you know, a long-term, enduring problem.
But it"s not just about bread. It"s also about dignity. We"ve been hearing cries about people, everybody from the Ayman Nour, Umar Caliph (ph), people like that chased out of the country and put in jail because they had some popularity or are thinking about running for office in Egypt. The time for us--
SCHULTZ: But, Congressman, excuse me, but right now, we run the risk of being on the wrong side of history.
ELLISON: Yes, we do.
SCHULTZ: You got millions of people who are out there that are going to be in the streets of Cairo. This doesn"t look like it"s going to be slowing down any time soon. Yet the United States continues to write checks for military hardware to Hosni Mubarak. Or do you support that at this point? Or it"s just us taking the money back?
ELLISON: Well, let me tell you, though, Ed. I mean, it"s just not--
I mean, what"s needed now is not a decision on something like this. What"s needed now is a very clear statement that we stand on the side of the Egyptian people. We can--you know, I think that, you know, absolutely, we need to review what we do with every country, but to make a decision for me to say that right now on your show, I don"t think is a responsible thing for me to do.
But what I will say is that, you know, we"re funneling all this money into Egypt and Israel. Now, remember, this is something that came about as a result of Camp David accords. This military thing, this money is because of a peace deal that happened a long time ago. For us just to unilaterally say, to just drop it and for me to advocate that on one show one night I think is not being a responsible member of Congress. But I will say--
SCHULTZ: Well, would it be responsible for the Congress to get together and convene and start talking about whether they"re going to underwrite the military hardware of a regime that is oppressing the people, won"t even let them get on the Internet today? I mean, how much more restrictive can you get?
ELLISON: Well, the answer to that is yes.
SCHULTZ: I mean, obviously, Mubarak is not going to give up. What about that?
ELLISON: Well, the answer to that is yes. The answer to that is, look, you know, shutting down access to media, we should all condemn that. I think that every--the United States should say that is wrong. We wouldn"t allow it for ourselves. We shouldn"t tolerate it and stand by and watch it happen to other people.
We shouldn"t--we should say free and fair elections now for the Egyptian people. We demand them for ourselves. We should say other people around the world who want them should have them.
SCHULTZ: Well, it is very clear that"s not reaching Mubarak. I mean, he"s changed--he"s got a vice president, something he"s never had. He"s changed the cabinet.
ELLISON: Right.
SCHULTZ: But he is not really listening to the concerns of the people or taking any action, nor has he made any commitment that he"s going to change anything. So, where do you think the president should go from here?
ELLISON: Well, let me tell you, Ed, people in his--people in his family are running out of the country. You know, you"re hearing that folks are going to London and stuff like that.
I mean, what is Mubarak"s next move? I think that he needs to listen to the cries of the Egyptian people who are calling for real democracy and I hope that all Americans say that, you know what? If we love democracy for ourselves, we should want it for anybody else in the world who wants it. We shouldn"t impose it on anybody but we should say that people should have a say so in how they"re governed--and that"s all that the people of Egypt are asking for.
SCHULTZ: Congressman Keith Ellison, thanks for your time tonight. I appreciate it so much.
ELLISON: Yes, sir.
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