MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript
Interview
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SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Good to be with you.
SCHULTZ: This mission to privatize Social Security has been no secret at all. This is what they"ve wanted to do for a long time. Their method, your take on their method and the way they"re going at it this time.
SANDERS: Massive amounts of misinformation and disinformation. The truth of the matter is, Social Security today has a $2.6 trillion surplus. Social Security can pay out every benefit owed to every eligible American for the next 27 years, at which point it could pay out about 80 percent of all benefits.
What does that mean? It means that within 27 years, we have to figure out how we deal with that gap. In my view, what you do is you lift the income cap so that people making more than $250,000 contribute more into the system.
SCHULTZ: Yes.
SANDERS: Right now, you"re making $1 million--you"re putting the same into the system as somebody making $106,000. Do it, problem solved, end of discussion.
SCHULTZ: OK. So, their method is misinformation. Their goal is to do what, line the pockets of the big boys on Wall Street?
SANDERS: Absolutely. Look, what the debate is about, Ed, is not really about the finances of Social Security. It"s an ideological debate. You know as well as I do, these guys don"t like government. They love Wall Street.
If you destroy Social Security and people want to have a retirement account, you invest in Wall Street. Wall Street makes over a period of time tens and tens of billions of dollars. That, in fact, is the long-term goal.
Second of all, if you have a Social Security system, as we have right now, which for 75 years, Ed--and people should appreciate that--has paid out every nickel owed to every eligible American in a very cost-effective way. You know what? People might actually have some faith in government.
SCHULTZ: What do you--what do you make of your former colleague, Mr. Boehner, over in the House and how he has shifted his position on the retirement age? Some people think that--well, he actually just said what he finally thought.
SANDERS: Well, has he called about raising the retirement age?
SCHULTZ: He did it one time and then reversed his position on that.
Can he be trusted?
SANDERS: No, I don"t--well, in my view--I mean, I think the Republicans are very clear. These guys are not sympathetic to the idea of government providing retirement benefits to elderly people, nor are they sympathetic to the government providing help to people with disabilities or widows and orphans.
Here"s the problem that they have: Social Security has worked. It has worked fantastically. Before Social Security, 50 percent of seniors lived in poverty. Today, 10 percent live in poverty.
People like Social Security. Well, if you"re a right wing ideologue and you hate government, this is not a good situation.
SCHULTZ: And do you think the Tea Party is right in bed with the Republicans on this one? There isn"t much difference between the two, is there, on this issue?
SANDERS: We"ll see how it plays out. At the grassroots level, you"ve got a lot of working class people--
SCHULTZ: Yes.
SANDERS: -- who got, you know, sucked into the Tea Party and I think once they understand that some of their leaders want to destroy what is very important to their lives, I think they may think twice about that.
SCHULTZ: This is what Harry Reid said about Social Security on "Meet the Press."
Here it is.
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DAVID GREGORY, MODERATOR, "MEET THE PRESS": Senator, you"re really saying the arithmetic on Social Security works?
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: I"m saying the arithmetic on Social Security works. I have no doubt it does.
GREGORY: It"s not in crisis?
REID: No, it"s not in crisis. This is--this is something that"s perpetuated by people who don"t like government. Social Security is fine. Are there things we can do to improve Social Security? Of course.
GREGORY: It means testing, raising the retirement age? Do you agree with either of those?
REID: I"m not going to any of those back door methods to whack Social Security recipients. I"m not going to do that. We have a lot of things we can do with this debt that"s a problem, but one of the places where I"m not going to be part of picking on is Social Security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHULTZ: Senator, I hear Harry Reid and I hear what you"re saying but I don"t hear the White House talking like you two guys. What about that?
SANDERS: Well, as you know, and I think I"ve discussed that on this program, we wrote a letter to the president, a very short letter. And basically we said, Mr. President, all we want you to do is tell us now what you said during the campaign.
And during the campaign, the president was very, very strong in saying he is going to defend Social Security, he"s not going to raise the retirement age, he is not going to cut benefits and he"s certainly not--
SCHULTZ: Are you afraid it"s become a bargaining chip for the White House?
SANDERS: Well, you know, he spoke to the issue very briefly at the State of the Union.
SCHULTZ: Yes.
SCHULTZ: If you parse and look very closely at the statement as I do, there was a little bit of wiggle room. And I hope that the president will be stronger on that. I hope that he will tell the American people that any effort to cut Social Security, to privatize Social Security, or raise the retirement age, he"s going to veto that. That"s what I really want to hear him say.
SCHULTZ: Senator Sanders, keep up the fight. Great to have you on THE ED SHOW tonight. Thanks so much.
SANDERS: Thank you, Ed.
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