MSNBC "Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

Interview

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SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), MINNESOTA: Well, thank you for clarifying that because that was quite a lead-in, Rachel.

And before we get started on how we can fix this, I do want to point out one thing, I hope you"ll be a little happier if after a year of the Democrats in the Senate standing up for "don"t ask, don"t tell," we get that repeal done, standing against it, standing up to repeal it, that we get that done on a Saturday. That is the plan.

We have picked up some votes because of the pressure over the time that we have pushed and pushed for this to get done, this repeal. Seventy percent of active duty soldiers and National Guard members say that they can live with this. We"ve got the top military brass supporting this from Gates to Mullen. And we have got the United States Senate, nearly every Democrat behind us. We"ve picked up at least four Republican votes.

And I just want to say, despite all of these problems, that is going to be something that you should celebrate as a victory. People should--as frustrated as they can get, I do hope they realize that this is a major victory.

MADDOW: Let me--let me ask you specifically about that, because there have been moderate Republicans, people like Scott Brown, Senator Snowe from Maine, Senator Murkowski from Alaska--I"m sure they"re upset with me calling them moderate. So, I take it back.

But there have some Republican senators who have said that they support repeal in principle but they voted against it the last time it came up in the Senate, not long ago, with procedural objections. And they wanted things to be sequenced differently. They wanted amendments to be handled differently.

Why shouldn"t we believe that"s just going to happen again on Saturday?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, we"re just very hopeful. This is a stand-alone bill. They have said--these Republicans have said that they support this repeal. So, this is their chance to vote on this repeal.

It"s not associated with anything else. It"s a simple stand-alone bill. And I believe we"re going to do this.

We also have the DREAM Act up.

The START Treaty, which is another great example of the kind of delay you"re talking about. That treaty was done five months ago, Rachel. This is the treaty that first was the baby of Ronald Reagan. Then went on the last time it was modified was under Gorge Bush.

You have seen everyone from Condoleezza Rice to Colin Powell supporting it. Yet, it ahs been delayed in the Senate, and not because of the Democrats in the Senate.

This is about our national security. This is about going without a START Treaty which would regulate and allow for inspection of nuclear arms in the country of Russia, which clearly has had issue with loose nukes and not putting the kind of money that they need to put into their security. We have been without a treaty for a year.

And that is why the Democrats in the Senate, along with a few brave Republicans here, are pushing to get this done.

So, I believe those are two examples where the Senate--just to show you--is worth to the nth hour. We will work through Christmas if we need to to get these important bills passed.

MADDOW: Do you think that there is an appetite to change the rules of the Senate? To change the rules of the Senate so that the filibuster cannot be used in the specific way that it has been used throughout this Congress to block every single piece of significant legislation and require 60 votes on everything the Senate votes on?

KLOBUCHAR: I believe that there is a way to change the rules. We have all of these--the new senators that have come in. A lot of us have managed things. And we"re frankly appalled by the abuses that are going on.

All we want is an up-or-down vote on things. You know, sometimes things will pass. Sometimes things will fail. But we need to get to those up-or-down votes. Dozens and dozens of judges that went through the judiciary committee, not exactly a wimpy committee on the Republican side, went through unanimously, still are sitting there on the floor. That"s what we"re dealing with.

So, a group of us started this. We are going clear through to the beginning of the next Congress with some ideas. Get rid of the secret hold. Why does America want bills and judges and nominees to be secretly held? They want to know.

This has always you been a country of openness. That is the foundation of our democracy. Make people stand up and debate. You could see whether people agreed with Bernie or not, but Bernie did last Friday when he stood there for eight hours, that"s what we want to see.

If people are going to hold bills or they"re going to filibuster things, make them stand and explain why. Make them do what you saw in that movie "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington." Those are just a few of the ideas that we are talking about.

MADDOW: Do you think, though, on the first day of the new Congress, on January 5th, that there will be a vote on changing those rules, that constitutional option, as they call it, would take 51 votes to establish new rules? Do you see that happening on January 5th? If it doesn"t happen then, it"s much harder to change it for another couple of years.

KLOBUCHAR: You"re exactly right. That is the time to do it. And by the way, just to make clear, this isn"t changing the Constitution, right? It"s just a tool that has been used in the past that is OK"d by vice presidents who preside over the Senate from Hubert Humphrey to Rockefeller to Nixon.

So, this is something that has been ruled on in the past. And so, the idea here is to simply either through negotiations or through emotions that Tom Udall is planning on making to get some of these rules changed.

MADDOW: Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, it"s always a real pleasure to have you on the show. Thanks for joining us.

KLOBUCHAR: Well, it is great to be on again. And we"re fixing our stadium, Rachel, so you can visit.

MADDOW: Oh, it"s excellent. It was very sad the way it just deflated like that.

KLOBUCHAR: Yes, I know. But it is--it"s getting fixed. And, you know, I wrote a book on that stadium, Rachel.

MADDOW: Did you really?

KLOBUCHAR: Yes, it was my senior essay in college. I haven"t really confessed it. Except you just have a way of bringing things out of people. And there you go, a little fact.

MADDOW: Can I extract from you right now an invitation to go with you through the Metrodome when it"s fixed?

KLOBUCHAR: You can. But don"t wear a pointy hat in the top row.

MADDOW: Excellent. Well done. And no darts.

KLOBUCHAR: All right.

MADDOW: Thank you.

KLOBUCHAR: OK. Thank you.

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