MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

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SEN. JACK REED (D-RI), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Thanks, Chris.

MATTHEWS: I"ve got great respect for you. My trick question--and it"s a trick question because it"s trick reality. I don"t know how many years we"re going to stay over there, but how can we ever win if we stay 20 years without al Qaeda holed up in Pakistan?

REED: Well, first I have to correct the record. I"m not a combat veteran. I have great respect for combat veterans.

MATTHEWS: OK.

REED: I spent 12 years in the Army, but just for the record. We have to make sure that the Pakistanis cooperate with us. And frankly, one of the issues there is that they consider some of these extremist groups as strategic assets, not liabilities. We have to convince them that they"re liabilities to their own government. But we have made some progress to get them to go into the tribal areas.

But I think the important point to emphasize and re-emphasize in the president"s comments is that he is committed to a July 2011 transition point, where our troops begin to come out. That is key. He does not see a long-term significant U.S. presence in the region. He sees a presence, but not the kind of combat presence we"re seeing today.

MATTHEWS: Why do we stay any more than (ph) we"re there? I mean, I keep asking to myself, if we have the al Qaeda elements across the border, and we"re not going to win ultimately--because, ultimately, the Taliban will call the shots when we leave, won"t they? And al Qaeda will call the shots when we leave. What influence can we have once we pull out in strength?

REED: Well, I think this might be seen as transitioning to a mission of really counterterrorism directed at those Taliban elements that are still supportive and connected to al Qaeda, and the al Qaeda element.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

REED: We can"t forget the fact that even though the Pakistanis are not taking as much action as we"d like against these elements within Pakistan, we are continuing to use Predator attacks, drone attacks, to disrupt and to destroy al Qaeda elements. We"re still looking and putting a lot of pressure on them. So we are not abandoning the field to al Qaeda, but we can do it, and I think we ultimately have to do it, with a much smaller footprint. And the president, I think, believes that also.

MATTHEWS: Well, speak now as if you"re speaking to a progressive audience, to a group of anti-war Democrats. What would you tell them it would look like a year or two from now over there in terms of our component? What would we have fighting over there? Would we have 50,000 troops, way less than we have now? What would we have in the field?

REED: Well, the first thing I would say is we are there because that"s where al Qaeda mounted their attacks against the United States. We have a real mission there. It"s continuing.

Second, we"re going to begin withdrawal. It"s not going to be as, I think, robust as many would like, but the direction is going to be set and it"s going to be firm. The president has done the same thing in Iraq. He said on the campaign trail, and he was--it was part of the debate, that he was going to start the withdrawal. That withdrawal is well under way and headed in the right direction.

The question, I think, is in a year from now, I think we"ll see that shift. I think we"ll see more activity by the Afghan national security forces. I think you"ll also see a continuing very robust counterterrorism effort by the United States. And that"ll be our special forces operations.

MATTHEWS: Well, right now, we"ve got a brand-new poll, Senator, a "Washington Post"/ABC poll, joining our other poll, that says 60 percent of Americans believe the war in Afghanistan--here"s a tough assessment--is not worth fighting. Fifty-four percent want troops to start withdrawing next July. Twenty-seven percent want a drawdown even sooner than that.

I guess--I guess the question that liberals and progressives will ask is, Is it going to a rapid withdrawal, a steep decline in our force level, or is it going to just drag on like--like--well, Vietnam did?

REED: I don"t think it"s going to be as rapid, frankly, as people would like to see. I"ll be very candid.

MATTHEWS: OK.

REED: But I think once that direction is set, it will be in that direction. It won"t be equivocating. And I think it will be based upon conditions, and many conditions. But again, you know, the president inherited an operation that was under-resourced, mismanaged because of Iraq for many years. I think he"s got the right strategy, and it"s going to be a difficult strategy to carry out, but it is the right strategy.

MATTHEWS: Thank you so much, Senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island.

REED: Thanks, Chris.

MATTHEWS: Happy Christmas to you.

REED: Merry Christmas.

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