MSNBC "Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript
Interview
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SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Good to be with you.
MADDOW: Senator, before I ask you specifically about the proposed defense cuts, let me get your reaction, overall, to what we heard from this commission today.
SANDERS: Well, it wasn"t the commission, it was the chairman and the co-chairman, and I think it"s basically a disaster.
Rachel, at a time when the top 1 percent have seen a huge increase in the amount of money they make, and that"s more than the bottom 50 percent, I think you got to take a hard look at the tax breaks that these people and large corporations have gotten. Every single year, we"re losing about $100 billion in revenue because of money being stashed away in tax havens in the Cayman Islands, in Bermuda. In the year 2005, one quarter of America"s large corporations didn"t pay a nickel in taxes after earning $1 trillion in profits.
Last year, ExxonMobil made $19 billion in profits. Not only did they not pay any taxes, they got a refund from the IRS for $156 million.
So, you"ve got to look within the context of the American society, huge loopholes in tax breaks for the richest people at a time when they are becoming much wealthier, and while the middle class is in steep decline.
So, I think when you talk about moving toward a balanced budget, clearly, you don"t punish working families and the middle class who are already hurting, you got to go to those people who have made out like bandits in recent years. The last 25 years, 80 percent of all new income went to the top 1 percent. Those are guys that I think you"ve got to look at in order to bring new revenue into the system, not working families--which is why I think the Bowles and Simpson report today was very, very weak and unfair.
MADDOW: On the issue of defense, specifically, Senator, do you think that we could actually see defense cuts this year for the first time in such a long time? Is it possible you"ll have some new allies among this new crop of self-proclaimed fiscal conservatives?
SANDERS: Rachel, I do. And I think the point that you made is some of these very, very conservative guys understand that when we spend $700 billion a year on defense, that"s the elephant in the room. And you can"t have any credibility at all if you"re not looking at defense spending. And I think there are--is an enormous opportunity in there.
Let me give you just some examples. My office took a look at spare parts that the military is purchasing and not using. They"re putting in warehouses--something like $25 billion every year in unused spare parts.
There is weapons systems out there--you know, when the military budget was substantially increased, we were fighting a major world power called the Soviet Union. We are still spending tens of billions of dollars a year on weapons systems, fighting the Soviet Union, except the Soviet Union no longer exists.
Our military posture should be fighting international terrorism and al Qaeda. We need to make major changes in the way we do business.
Also, there is massive fraud--massive fraud within the defense industry. We issued a report, which will soon be up on the Internet, talking about how major military contractors are ripping off the government. They"ve been fined billions of dollars, because of just cheating the government. These guys go out--in addition to that, they go out for contracts. They say, yes, we"ll build these weapons systems for $5 billion, turns out they end up building it for $15 billion.
So, I think any honest person understands when you"re looking at a $700 billion budget, there are enormous savings that we can bring about without lessening our military strength.
MADDOW: And let the record show that we discussed on this program tonight potential policy overlaps between Senator Sanders of Vermont and Senator Coburn of Oklahoma, and in that, I believe anything is possible.
Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont--Sir, it is always a real pleasure to have you here. Thank you.
SANDERS: Thank you, Rachel.
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