MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript
Interview
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SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), VERMONT: They"re hoarding...
SCHULTZ: They"re flat-out hoarding the money! Your thoughts on this story?
SANDERS: Well, they are hoarding the money, and you are absolutely right in everything that you said, except for one thing, Ed. These people are not really American corporations. They could care less about the United States of America. You remember a few years ago, Halliburton moved to Dubai. These guys would move to China tomorrow if they could make a nickel more in profits.
I want to read you something which I think many people may not be aware of. You know, the Chamber of Commerce is getting into the--into the news a bit lately. In July 1st, 2004, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce president and CEO, Thomas Donohue, urged American companies to send jobs overseas.
Now, what do you think about that in terms of economic patriotism? These guys would much prefer to pay workers in China 50 cents an hour than reinvest in the United States of America, create decent jobs here. That"s the reality.
SCHULTZ: Do the American people get it, in your opinion? I mean, this is a--the Chamber of Commerce story that you just brought up, what the corporations are doing--I mean, it"s--it"s all on the table for the American people to see. It would seem to me that the Democrats would rule on November 2nd.
SANDERS: Well, the answer is the Democrats had better win, or else we"re going to see more outsourcing. You"re going to see more tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires. You"re going to see more deregulation, so we can have another Wall Street disaster or a BP disaster.
And I"ll tell you what else you"re going to see. You"re going to see either the privatization of Social Security or a movement in that direction, or raising the Social Security retirement age to 70. I think it is very clear to anyone who spends five minutes looking at this issue, is that while the Democrats, in my view--and I speak as an independent--have not been as strong as they should be in protecting the working class of this country, there is no question but the Republicans are out there protecting Wall Street, the millionaires and billionaires. And that"s what they have done and that"s what they"re doing right now.
SCHULTZ: Senator, this means that if the Democrats maintain the majority in the Senate and the House, the majority party is going to have to operate differently in dealing with this mindset.
SANDERS: You"re absolutely right.
SCHULTZ: It"s not going to be able to be the olive branches coming out of the White House and, Let"s wait three months to see if we can get another Republican senator on board and do this bipartisan tap dance in this country.
SANDERS: Ed...
SCHULTZ: This is about power! This is how they want to run the country! And if the Democrats win, they"re going to have to operate differently. Am I right or wrong?
SANDERS: Look, it"s high time--it is high time that the Democrats use power the way the Republicans are. You"d be hard pressed to know that the Democrats have 59 in the Senate and the Republicans 41. It"s high time that we said there"s not going to be anymore outsourcing. We"re going to come up with a fair trade policy, rather than unfettered free trade.
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And if you Republicans want to vote for corporate America, you go for it, but everybody in this country is going to know it because if you filibuster, we"re going to keep this place open 24 hours a day, seven days a week. No more tax breaks for billionaires. We"re going to use that money to reinvest in our infrastructure, create millions of good-paying jobs. You"re not going to raise the retirement age for Social Security to 70. We"re going to revisit Wall Street and really make some strong reforms.
Bottom line, Ed, and I think this is what you"ve been saying, the Democrats have got to make it clear to the working class of this country that they are really on their side, they"re prepared to mix it up with these very powerful people. It ain"t going to be easy, but I think if we win the support of the majority of working people in this country, we can stand up and make some real changes.
SCHULTZ: Couple of things I think that the majority party has got to do. They have to adopt a strategy of "Buy American" to create jobs. They"re also going to have to, I think, lay out to the American people this kind of corporate greed, this is the legislation we"re going to introduce to turn this around, and then force the Republicans to step forward and say, Where"s your plan for creating jobs?
They"re hoarding the money. They want to go the top 2 percent tax cuts again. It is more of the same. It would seem to me that this is the time when the Democrats are going to have to step up and strike the passion of the American people because if they don"t have the majority and if they lose the House, they"re going to chip away at Obama for the next two years. And of course, with this Chamber of Commerce activity with foreign money, we are--we are living in just a historic time in the transformation of government in this country!
SANDERS: Hey, Ed, you know what"s going on right now? What"s going on right now is you"ve got the top 1 percent today earning more income than the bottom 50 percent. In the last 30 years, 55 percent of all income growth in America went to the top 1 percent. And what you"re seeing is a nation in which a few people not only have tremendous amounts of money, but they are also using that money, as you"ve just indicated, in the political process.
SCHULTZ: Yes.
SANDERS: Billionaires are spending that money undisclosed, running these horrendous ads all over this country. It is high time Democrats stood up to these billionaires and millionaires and work with the working families of this country to create a nation which does well for all of us and not just for the people on top.
SCHULTZ: We"re headed to gated communities all over America. Senator Sanders, keep up the fight. Great to have you with us tonight. Thanks for speaking up again.
SANDERS: Thank you.
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