MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

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TODD: Congressman Clyburn, you"re a son of the South. So do you think she"s got a point that President Obama needs--still got some things to learn about rural America and about what it"s like to be an African-American in the South?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC), MAJORITY WHIP: Oh, there"s no question about it. The fact of the matter is, we do know that President Obama has in the White House a lot of a lot of very gifted people, very smart people. But we are all the sum total of our experiences. I don"t care who you are, you cannot be any more, nor will you be any less than what your experiences allow you to be.

And Chuck, I want you to know that happens even within the households. My wife and I grew up in a different environment, and we had to learn early on that adjustments had to be made.

And so I try to tell people all the time the experiences of growing up in the South, the experiences of growing up in rural communities, those are different experiences than you get on the streets of New York or Chicago.
And I think those kinds of experiences need to be factored into the decision making at the White House, as well as in a lot of these secretaries of state--secretaries" offices in the cabinet.

TODD: You know, Congressman, I was thinking--President Obama shared a story in one of these many books that have already been written about his campaign about how when he finally came to the decision to run, one of the reasons was he thought, Well, you know what? The way he"ll be a role model for young black men in America today will be very important to him. And yet the ability to talk about race while he"s been a sitting president just hasn"t been there for him.

Do you think the experience with what happened this week, what happened with Skip Gates a year ago, is just going to make it even that much harder for this president ever to address the issues of race in this country that still need to be addressed as a sitting president?

CLYBURN: Well, you know, you don"t learn to deal with things by avoiding them. And I think that too much advice is given to this president about avoiding these problems, not confronting them. You have to confront these issues and you have to learn how to tolerate certain things if you are going to be able to get beyond them. And so I think that there is a little too much of avoidance taking place here, rather than confronting these issues.

We can have a real, good, productive discussion around the issue of race, but only if you engage. And you must learn how to get along with people, but you can"t do it if you don"t engage each other. And that"s what"s happening here, and I do believe that that"s what is causing this problem.

TODD: So you believe this--in many ways, this circus of the last four days in some ways might have been influenced by the fact that this White House has been looking for ways to go--to not talk about race.

CLYBURN: Well, I"m not saying not talk about it. I think that there"s so many things about the experience, various experiences that people have, that sometimes, we aren"t comfortable enough to really engage on it. Look, when all of this happened, when Ms. Sherrod was nothing but a name, people felt one way.

TODD: Right.

CLYBURN: When then they began to look at her background, look at her experiences--

TODD: Behind the story, yes.

CLYBURN: -- and see what this real story is, people feel totally different. Now, how did we find out about who and what she is?

TODD: Right.

CLYBURN: We found out only when we started getting beyond her name--

TODD: Right.

CLYBURN: -- and maybe her photo. And that"s the way we"re going to have to deal with this issue overall, engage each other--

TODD: I know you got to--

CLYBURN: -- and learn who we are.

TODD: I know you got to go, but I want to ask you about the news about Congressman Charlie Rangel and the news coming from the Ethics Committee. I would just like to ask you to comment about that. Do you think that Congressman Rangel should not be seeking reelection, or what do you think should be the next step here?

CLYBURN: Well, I heard about this this afternoon. I think that there is going to--this is a sort of recommendation that comes before a committee, I believe next week, maybe next Thursday, at which time I think all of this will get feted out. I will not offer any advice to Mr. Rangel based upon what I"ve heard thus far. I did talk to Charlie today about many things. He seemed to be in a very good mood. And I really believe that this is going to work out just fine for Congressman Rangel.

TODD: All right, Congressman Clyburn, thank you for your time today.

CLYBURN: Thank you so much for having me.

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