CNN Crossfire - transcript

CNN Crossfire 17:00 July 14, 2004 Wednesday

July 14, 2004 Wednesday

HEADLINE: The Bush-Kerry Battle

GUESTS: Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Gregory Meeks

BYLINE: Wolf Blitzer, James Carville, Tucker Carlson

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

CARVILLE: The Republican Party shot itself in the foot today. As a matter of fact, it blew its whole leg off. George W. Bush and his buddies on the radical right tried to embarrass John Kerry and the Democrats by forcing a vote to write the anti-gay bigotry into the U.S. Constitution and couldn't even muster a simple majority. They won't be able to muster a majority in November either, not that they did the last time.

(APPLAUSE)

CARVILLE: In the CROSSFIRE from Capitol Hill is Democratic Gregory Meeks in New York. And here with us at the George Washington University is the beautiful, gorgeous, lovely Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen.

(CROSSTALK)

REP. ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN ®, FLORIDA: That's the only opinion with which I agree with.

CARLSON: Amen.

(CROSSTALK)

CARVILLE: You are, Congresswoman.

CARLSON: Now, Congressman Meeks, thanks for joining us. There's been a feeling, I think a bipartisan feeling, really for the last couple of years, that John Kerry, for all his experience and his undeniably high intelligence, doesn't really know what he believes.

"The Washington Post" this morning I think added to this feeling by listing all the different campaign advisory councils the Kerry campaign has set up. We're going to put a graphic up on the screen. You can read them.

There are 37 separate domestic policy councils, 27 foreign policy groups, 195 members of the Justice Policy Task Force, 200 members of the environmental group, 200 members of the agricultural group, and 200 economic advisers.

What's the message here? If you like the DMV, you'll love the Kerry administration? What do you read into this?

(LAUGHTER)

REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D), NEW YORK: No.

Kerry's is a very focused individual. He's an individual who understands and takes and accepts opinions from those to formulate his opinion. It's just basically what he talks about when you talk about foreign policy, how we should include other individuals, so that we can be sure of what we're doing and come up with a policy that works.

And John Kerry is man that is able to absorb and to take in and then to focus and direct policy. That's what he's done his whole career and that is what he'll do as president of the United States.

CARLSON: That's a pretty smooth answer, Congressman. I congratulate you for defending the hard-to-defend.

But I wonder if you could comment on one of the key decisions these groups are making, this reported again today in "The Washington Post"-quote-"One task force is still arguing about whether it should be titled-quote-'The Council on Babies Children and Youth or Just Children and Youth.'"

I mean, that's where-when you send your 100 bucks to the Kerry campaign, that's where it goes, to councils that make those kind of key decisions, what they should be named?

MEEKS: No, what you're doing is, you're pulling straws out of the hat.

When you're talking about getting involved in everyday nuts-and- bolts decisions, we have high-level people who are of ultimate, who have great vision. They sit down. Senator Kerry listens. He then digests it. And then he makes the decisions. He's a man that is of action and takes the nation in a proper way. But he knows how to include people. He's not one that's arrogant and tries to exclude people.

CARVILLE: Congresswoman, let's get away from really important issues like a subcommittee of the subcommittee in the Kerry campaign and go to a relevant thing, like they fact that we're stuck in Iraq and we haven't found any weapons of mass destruction and our intelligence is terrible.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

CARVILLE: A year ago today-a year ago today, this is what President Bush had to say about the intelligence that he had received. This was four months after we had been looking for the weapons of mass destruction and it was clear that we weren't going to find them. Let me show you what the president had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Let me first say that, you know, I think the intelligence I get is darned good intelligence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

CARVILLE: OK. Now, here's a man that he says that he had darned good intelligence. Today, Tony Blair says, I take full responsibility.

How is anybody going to vote for that? Do you think really think that?

ROS-LEHTINEN: That is the same intelligence that France had, that Germany had, that Russia had, the same intelligence that everyone in the U.N. had, when, to a country, they voted unanimously, resolution after resolution, a dozen resolutions saying that Saddam Hussein is not complying.

(CROSSTALK)

CARVILLE: Do you think he had darned-do you agree with him that he had darned good-what kind of judgment does that say, that that man sits there and says-why did Tony Blair say, I take responsibility?

(CROSSTALK)

ROS-LEHTINEN: We had the-we had the next-best intelligence that anybody had. No one disagreed with us.

CARVILLE: So you're satisfied? You're satisfied with the CIA's intelligence?

ROS-LEHTINEN: And we are willing to say, in a bipartisan way, like Senator Roberts' Intelligence Committee said, that they were false and that we all shared them, the international community, and that our intelligence gathering community is going to improve. And that's what President Bush is doing.

CARVILLE: So you-you agree with President Bush he had darned good intelligence?

ROS-LEHTINEN: Every one in the United Nations agreed that the intelligence was good.

CARVILLE: OK, you all agree, Republicans. Intelligence is good.

(CROSSTALK)

ROS-LEHTINEN: And we relied on that.

It is very difficult to infiltrate these terrorist organizations who blow themselves up.

(CROSSTALK)

ROS-LEHTINEN: If you'd like to volunteer, you could be the human intelligence and infiltrate these groups.

(CROSSTALK)

CARVILLE: We don't need me.

(CROSSTALK)

ROS-LEHTINEN: These are groups that want to blow themselves up for a cause. And it's very difficult for us to have good intelligence.

CARVILLE: OK.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Now, Mr. Meeks, sometimes I feel-and this one of those times-like the only feminist left in America.

(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: It seems to me, if you're John Kerry and you're looking for people to speak at your convention, it's obvious that you want not simply a strong woman, but indeed the strongest woman, the most famous woman, the most admired woman in your party. And that of course is Hillary Clinton, a member of your congressional delegation. And, instead, John Kerry's has said to Senator Clinton, no dice. You can't speak. Be quiet. Go home and bake cookies. Aren't you offended by this? I know I am.

MEEKS: Well, no, John Kerry did not say that. Senator Clinton will participate in the convention. She will be there. And, most importantly, her husband will also, the former president of the United States, speak.

And we will have women that are represented across the board. The key with the Democratic Party is, we have got so much talent and so many people that represents what America is about that it's hard to fit everybody in just the four days that we have at convention. And so Hillary will be a part of it, as she is very much a part of this campaign and she will be out on the campaign trail, most importantly, letting folks know that John Kerry is the right man with the plan for America.

CARLSON: Yes. So, you've got time for Howard Dean and Jimmy Carter, but not for Hillary.

Let me ask you this question, then. Does it bother you, considering, as you said, the Democratic Party represents so many people, that the Kerry campaign couldn't find a single, not one, woman or member of an ethnic minority group qualified enough to be vice president and instead they got this rich white guy? That doesn't bother you at all?

MEEKS: Well, look-but-no. Let's-Senator Kerry picked the right person, John Edwards, to be vice president. There's no question about that.

(CROSSTALK)

MEEKS: It seems to me ironic that the other side is going to talk about-a party that is basically monolithic talking about the diversity we have in the Democratic Party. So, clearly, I think that Senator

(CROSSTALK)

(APPLAUSE)

CARVILLE: Congresswoman, myself and the Republicans on the Intelligence Committee say that our intelligence stunk. You and President Bush said it's great.

Let me show you another Republican I'm agreeing with and see if you can team up, if we can make this. I'm going to show you what Senator John McCain said about this gay rights thing, the constitutional amendment we're talking about. "It is antithetical in every way to the core philosophy of the Republicans. It usurps from the states the fundamental authority they've always possessed and imposes a federal remedy for a problem that most states do not believe confronts them."

Now, would you agree with Senator John McCain and James Carville or do you side with President Bush that these gay people are a threat to our way of life?

ROS-LEHTINEN: As in many things, I agree with Senator John McCain. I voted for the Defense of Marriage Act, which President Clinton, your pal, signed into law.

CARVILLE: Are you for this constitutional amendment?

ROS-LEHTINEN: Defining-defining marriage as between a man and woman.

However, I agree with Senator McCain that we do not need a divisive constitutional amendment as our nation is still evolving on a controversial issue and civil unions becomes something that we should discuss at the states level. So I agree with Senator McCain.

(CROSSTALK)

CARVILLE: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

CARVILLE: We have you and McCain and Carville against Bush and DeLay and...

ROS-LEHTINEN: There we go. There we go.

CARLSON: We're down to less than a minute.

But,very quickly, aren't you appalled by John Kerry's opposition to gay marriage? Why is he against letting gay people get married? Can you explain it to me?

MEEKS: Well, John Kerry talks about what his personally beliefs are, based upon his religious beliefs, as all.

What's great about America is that you should be able to express your opinion about what you feel and your religious belief, but not infringe upon others. And so it is perfectly fit for John Kerry to talk about what he believes personally, but not try to impose that belief on others. Let the states-I agree. Let the states decide, etcetera. So John Kerry is just fitting within why-why it's good to be an American and why I think he would be a great American president.

CARLSON: All right.

(APPLAUSE)

CARVILLE: Why have we had this guy on the bench? Congressman, you get out there. You're a great spokesman. You're doing a great job. Thank you, sir.

CARLSON: All right, next in "Rapid Fire," we'll ask why John Edwards isn't helping John Kerry more in North Carolina, indeed, not really helping him at all.

And what is the acting director of the CIA saying about criticism of his agency's work? Wolf Blitzer has details of his exclusive next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

Coming up at the top of the hour, the nation's top spy, the acting CIA director, John McLaughlin, defends his agency against Senate charges it botched the WMD investigation. I spoke with him at length just a short time ago. Join us for a CNN television exclusive.

Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge visits Boston to preview plans and to review how best to protect the Democratic National Convention from terrorists. We'll talk with him live.

And a major setback today for the fight to outlaw same-sex marriage.

Those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."

Now back to CROSSFIRE.

CARVILLE: It's time for "Rapid Fire," where we ask questions even faster than John Edwards can bring a smile to voters' faces.

With the rest of us, Democratic Congressman Gregory Meeks, his first appearance on CROSSFIRE, and a damn impressive one, and regular guest Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida, always an impressive guest.

Thank you so much for being here.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Now, Mr. Meeks, John Kerry picks the sitting senator from North Carolina to run with him and he is still losing in the latest poll by 15 points in North Carolina. I would have thought John Edwards would have brought more votes with him.

MEEKS: Well, depending upon which poll you look at will tell you differently. And I say the poll that counts will be the poll that takes place on November 2.

Clearly, if you look at crowd that came out in Raleigh, North Carolina, recently this past weekend, unprecedented, and you look at the energy that is happening in North Carolina-here is a state that once you would think that was just clearly going to be a Bush state. But I know one thing. You can sleep on that 15 points if you want. If you all want to take it for granted, take it for granted, but see us November 2.

(LAUGHTER)

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

CARVILLE: We are-we haven't had the Democratic Convention yet. President Bush, the incumbent, is down probably average around three or four points right now. How concerned are you that your candidate is going to go into his opponent's convention down in the polls?

ROS-LEHTINEN: Well, that's not a problem for us, because we have got to look like an underdog. We have got to fire up our base. It is all going to be turnout. Florida, my home state, is going to be a pivotal state. We hope that we are not counting votes by January. We hope that we will be done on election night.

And, in all these swing states, you're going to see that they know that the president is a man who is handling the economy well, understands the global war against terrorism and understands the needs for the future generations. So he's going to be the man to beat. And we don't mind being the underdog. We know how to fight.

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: Now, Mr. Meeks, apart from Hillary Clinton, who has been excluded, just about everybody else in the Democratic universe is speaking at convention, Al Sharpton, Al Gore, Howard Dean, but not Michael Dukakis. He's never invited to address the convention.

(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: And I think it's outrageous. And I wonder if you will be brave enough to stand up on his behalf and say to the leaders of your party, let Michael speak.

MEEKS: Well, when you think-when you join the Democratic Party, then we'll take your opinion.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

MEEKS: However, let me tell you something. We're going to put up the best people that we have. And Michael Dukakis is a part of our party. We have a big tent. And we welcome everyone.

(BELL RINGING)

MEEKS: I wish we could extend the convention so that we can have all the great Democrats talk. By sure, I think that we outnumber the numbers of Republicans and we will put on a show.

CARLSON: OK.

(CROSSTALK)

CARVILLE: We need to get Congressman Gregory Meeks to speak at the convention.

CARLSON: Gregory Meeks from New York state, thank you so much.

Congressman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen from Florida, thank you both very much.

(CROSSTALK)

ROS-LEHTINEN: Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: All right.

Well, first off, free Michael Dukakis.

Second, are the Democrats headed for a floor fight in Boston? Find out what Jerry Springer has planned for the Democratic Party's convention next. What a freak show.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: Welcome back.

Well, once upon a time, long before he started refereeing television battles between sexy secret hookers, lying, cheating lovers, and battlin' bed mates, Jerry Springer was a TV newsman of sorts. His peers considered him a pretty good one. Springer is the recipient of 10 Emmy awards for his work in local news.

So who could better be suited to cover the Democratic Convention as a special correspondent for Cleveland's 19 Action News? Jerry Springer, who is also a convention delegate. He promises his reports will not be boring. Maybe he'll start a floor fight. News at 11:00.

CARVILLE: From the left, I'm James Carville. That's it for CROSSFIRE. Thank you for joining us.

CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again tomorrow for yet more CROSSFIRE.

Free Hillary Clinton.

See you tomorrow.