MSNBC "Hardball With Chris Matthews" - Transcript
Interview
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We start with this historic day itself with senator Sheldon Whitehouse, a Democrat, of Rhode Island. Senator, I have to give you some good news for the Democrats. A new Gallup poll by "USA Today," a one-day poll conducted Monday--that"s yesterday--finds 49 percent say it"s a good thing that Congress passed the health care bill, 40 percent say it"s a bad thing. So times change, things change so quickly. Victory looks good to the American people so far. Your thoughts?
SEN. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (D), RHODE ISLAND: I think victory does look good to the American people. I also think that as they become more accustomed to this bill, as the president said, as its reality confronts some of the rhetoric that we"ve heard about it, they will learn some very important things about what this bill does. I think the Republicans have painted themselves into a corner, if they want to run against us in November, on opposing closing the doughnut hole for seniors, opposing protecting children with preexisting conditions against the insurance companies that are denying them coverage, opposing $1.3 trillion in deficit reduction, opposing tax credits for small business. It"s--they put themselves in a tough position.
MATTHEWS: OK, let"s listen to some of the president today as he signed the bill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Our presence here today is remarkable and improbable. With all the punditry, all of the lobbying, all of the game-playing that passes for governing in Washington, it"s been easy at times to doubt our ability to do such a big thing, such a complicated thing, to wonder if there are limits to what we, as a people, can still achieve. It"s easy to succumb to the sense of cynicism about what"s possible in this country. But today, we are affirming that essential truth, a truth every generation is called to rediscover for itself, that we are not a nation that scales back its aspirations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: You know, Senator, I was just thinking, I"m trying to get beyond the cynicism of the people who just think everything is score-keeping, to real motivation in politics, real mission in politics. How does this fit with your goals in life, what happened today?
WHITEHOUSE: This is right down the middle. I come from Rhode Island. Rhode Island is a state with a lot of seniors, and a lot of low-income seniors. So solving their greatest dread, which is falling into the doughnut hole for part D prescription drug coverage, is a really important and fulfilling thing. I heard from a woman just the other day, Christine (ph) in Providence, about her 23-year-old son, who she"s scared to death about because he"s out on the job market and can"t get health insurance and he"s off her policy.
Christine"s son will be protected. You have--you come from a state like mine, and this is all personal. It"s all real. And that"s what"s been so frustrating about the demagoguery and the nonsense, and frankly, the flat-out lies about things like "death panels." Now that it gets real and we have a real bill, I think we"ve got a
wonderful story to tell. And more important, we can really deliver for the people at home who are living in this health care system and experiencing its failures day in, day out in heartbreaking ways. Really, the stories are just unbelievable, and this will begin to address them.
MATTHEWS: Well, I want you to get to that point in a bit more detail even than that because, you know, every economist, everyone who studied economics in college or grad school, like I did, knows the importance of the stimulus bill that was passed last year. And yet anecdotally, your party has lost the argument because Republicans were able to say it didn"t do anything because you never sold it on the ground. Is that a lesson you have to not make--well, the mistake you cannot make this time, you have to explain the health care bill so it doesn"t become evanescent, like the
stimulus bill did?
WHITEHOUSE: I think it"s true. The stimulus bill achieved kind of a notoriety of its own. Republican governors and congressmen came to all the ribbon-cuttings. They spent the money. They loved it. They claimed the jobs that it would create when they applied for it. But once it was a stimulus bill, something generic, they attacked it. We have to make sure that this stays close to home and that the real stories hit home. And I think we have a strong commitment from the White House to be persistent about getting that message out. And of course, the bill itself gives us a story to tell that has (ph) good in the real homes of real people and real families all over this country.
MATTHEWS: How does the president use this victory moment to grab hold of the hearts and guts of the American people? I know that you"ve got financial regulation coming up, which could be another one of those bills that becomes a little too Adlai Stevenson, a little too elite--Woodrow Wilson, if you will, a little too elitist, if you will. It doesn"t grab people. Wait a minute, the government"s going to be a little Teddy
Roosevelt here. They"re going to grab hold of these big trusts and they"re going to protect us. How do you grab that issue and make that coming issue into a kitchen-table issue?
WHITEHOUSE: I think there are lots of ways for the president to do this. Two that come to mind, bring to the White House some of the families of the children who have preexisting conditions, where dad and mom were trapped in their jobs because they couldn"t move because they"d lose the coverage for their child with the preexisting condition. Let them tell their stories. You know, it can be as simple as that. I think also, at a more political level, you know, one team worked very hard to try to fix a real problem for the American people. The other team demagogued it and lied about it. And I think independent voters, given the choice, even if they disagree with parts of the bill, will say, Look, one team was in there trying. The other team was out there lying.
We"re for the team that"s in there trying. At least they took us seriously as voters and tried to solve a real problem that we, as citizens, face.
MATTHEWS: Is part of the problem--the failure to get what we call bipartisan support--was that there aren"t many bipartisan types left on the Republican side?
You"ve got people like Chuck Grassley and Enzi, Mike Enzi from Wyoming, you got a few out there potentially--certainly, Dick Lugar, people like that, who would be--and the two senators from Maine, who would normally be part of a coalition to get something done for this country, a pragmatic coalition. But they"re not enough in number. Is that the problem, you just can"t get enough of them, so none of them break loose because nobody wants to be part of a small renegade group?
WHITEHOUSE: Well, I think they also made a calculated decision, as a party, to hang together and oppose everything Obama proposed for the purposes of basically trying to make him look like a failed president. It was a calculated decision. They made it early. They stuck to it. It was a strategy. This was not just people being unwilling to come across the aisle, this was an actual strategy of refusing to come across the aisle.
MATTHEWS: Well, that"s the same thing...
WHITEHOUSE: And the...
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Well, then, you"re saying they followed the same strategy of rejectionism that they used back in "93-"94.
WHITEHOUSE: More or less. I wasn"t here then, so I didn"t see it firsthand. But I think the combination of trying to deny Obama victories and trying to appeal to the very far right wing that is very important in Republican primaries has driven them way off course from the American people.
MATTHEWS: OK. Thank you so much, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island. Thanks for joining us on this very historic day.
WHITEHOUSE: Thank you.
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