MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

Interview

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MADDOW: Right now, liberals appear to be exerting some influence on this health reform debate, at long last. The question is: what will that yield?

Joining us now is Democratic Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon. He"s a member of the Senate Finance Committee.

Senator Wyden, thanks very much for coming back on the show. It"s nice to see you.

SEN. RON WYDEN (D), OREGON: Thank you, Rachel.

MADDOW: Let me talk to you about my assessment there of the public option. In your view, is the current public option so weak right now that liberals maybe should try to trade it away for something more meaningful?

WYDEN: It certainly has been getting weaker. The fact of the matter is: progressives have been working all across the country for a public option that isn"t just an empty label. The whole point of the public option is to turn the tables on the insurance lobby, to put the consumer in the driver"s seat, to stop these anti-competitive practices.

So, we are going to negotiate, particularly tomorrow. There"s an effort to try to get an agreement tomorrow. I hope that"s possible.

But this is on a fast track. We"ve got a good group of people at the table. Progressives are well-represented.

And at the end of the day, we want to be able to give an ultimatum to the insurance industry, which is, in effect, you treat the consumer right or they"re going to take their business somewhere else.

MADDOW: It"s hard for those of us who are trying to watch this from outside Washington, who are not part of the Senate, or are non-Senate staff, it"s hard for us to know what exactly the dynamics are within the debate. Are you saying that the dynamics are such that the public option could get stronger? From outside Washington, it feels like the public option might go away.

WYDEN: The people that are at the table, you listed a number of progressives, are people who have fought in the trenches for the grassroots of this country. And they have put a lot of time in this. They"ve been spending their political capital, mobilizing folks in their communities. These are not people who are going to go quietly into the night.

I mean, the idea of just taking what we have today, this network of private insurance companies that engage in outrageous practices and slapping some sticker on it and calling it a public option, that"s not going to be acceptable to the progressive folks who are at the table. We are going to insist on real reform and I believe we"ve got a good chance to get it.

MADDOW: Would you support the idea of Medicare being made available to people who are younger than age 65?

WYDEN: I"m certainly open to that.

Here are some of the issues: First of all, Rachel, we"ve got to understand, folks between 55 and 64 today--and 65 are essentially in a world of hurt. I mean, many of them have faced layoffs in a tough economy. They get discriminated against in the insurance market--certainly giving them a boost makes some sense.

The only consideration I have is, I don"t want to forget about somebody who"s 47 or 48. I mean, if we can make sure that there"s real reform in the private insurance market and get some help for those who are over 55, but before Medicare, that would be real reform.

MADDOW: On the issue of abortion, your colleague, Senator Ben Nelson, did introduce his anti-abortion amendment in the Senate today. It mirrors the one that had been passed by the House.

Does abortion still have the potential to really blow up unity in the Democratic caucus?

WYDEN: Look, we are a big tent. We are stretching that tent to try to make sure that we get everybody under it. Ben Nelson is very sincere in his views, but I"m against the amendment. I think it is a slippery slope.

Look, we have a rough consensus in this country. We protect Roe versus Wade. There isn"t public funding of abortions. And, unfortunately, the Nelson amendment would unravel that consensus. This would be a great mistake to pass this amendment and roll back the clock on women"s rights.

MADDOW: Do you think that there"s any potential that the Nelson language will pass?

WYDEN: No. I think that, particularly, based on today"s debate, I expect we"ll have supporters on both sides of the aisle.

Look. This is a critical question with respect to privacy as well. There"s great concern among folks on the far-right about government getting too big. Why in the world would you want to let big government make these decisions that now belong to women?

MADDOW: Democratic Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon--thanks for shedding some light on what"s going on in Washington tonight. Appreciate it.

WYDEN: Thank you.

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