Republican Alternatives To Obamacare

Floor Speech

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Mr. FLEMING. I thank the gentleman, Dr. Broun from Georgia, whom I consider a mentor of mine, a family physician who has preceded me into Congress. And it's important that we physicians speak out on this important issue. We've come to a point now where the Democrat version of this, or versions I shall say, are about to be put together and put to a vote. And I think that we have an idea about what's going to come out on the other side of this, whether it's a hybrid or some sort of combination or one or the other, the Baucus bill, which mainly emphasizes increased premiums, taxes on health plans, on medical devices, if you will; and then on the House side, a plan with a so-called robust public option which we know to be a very robust takeover by the government of health care which will lead to a number of taxes.

Every one of them finance this program basically in two ways: one, raising taxes or a cost on premiums or both; and the other is gutting Medicare to the tune of a half trillion dollars. On top of that, it gets a running start by taking in revenue for about 3 years before actually spending it on anything to, again, cook the books and make things look better. And then on top of that is an impending decline in reimbursements to physicians of 21 percent in their Medicare reimbursements, which, again, adds another $250 billion of cost on this, which can be hidden. They're trying to hide it, but it's not successful.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. I want to reclaim my time just 1 second because there's an extremely important point, Dr. Fleming, you just made, and I think the American people need to understand that. So I would like for you, if you would please, to repeat the statement that you just said, and then I want to ask you a question about that statement, if you would. Please repeat that statement.

Mr. FLEMING. That at the end of the day, this thing is going to be financed by a combination of increased premium costs--significantly increased premium costs--or taxes or both, and gutting Medicare to the tune of a half trillion dollars, and on top of that, another $250 billion of impending cuts to the tune of, at this point, of 21 percent, if not greater, to physician reimbursement, which if it ever goes into effect will basically collapse the Medicare market and accessibility of care to physicians.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. The physician reimbursement rate is the point I wanted you to really focus upon, Dr. Fleming. I know you've talked to a lot of doctors in Louisiana, just like I've talked to a lot of our physician colleagues from Georgia, and really from all over the country. The doctors' reimbursement rate is what doctors are paid. That is now below what it costs them to deliver the care. I think most physicians would agree with that, wouldn't you?

Mr. FLEMING. Absolutely. It's only a fraction of the real cost.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. Then if doctors are cut more, that's through Medicare and Medicaid today, if doctors' payments are cut even more, what's going to happen to a senior's doctor who is out there trying to take care of folks now and being underpaid by Medicare? What do you think is going to happen? What is the doctor's response going to be? What does it have to be?

Mr. FLEMING. Again, to look at the fundamentals of economics, today doctors are paid on average 80 percent of the cost of the care they provide. The rest is made up on private insurance. And if you cut that further, then physicians will find not only can they not break even on providing care to Medicaid recipients, they are going to lose money. And they can't afford to do that. They can't make payroll. They can't pay their light bill, their rent and so forth if they can't make enough money from their patients.

So the bottom line here is the basic dishonesty of this bill. It says that a half trillion dollars will be cut out of Medicare and it's going to come out of fraud, waste and abuse. After 40 years, no one has been able to figure out how to do that. No one advances a methodology for doing that today. And so if you add already the fact that physicians are paid less than their costs, an impending cut of 21 percent of their reimbursement and perhaps more in future years, and then another half trillion dollars, which is going to go against them and hospitals, what we're basically doing is telling seniors, Forget it; we're taking your health care, and we're giving it to other people.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. That is right, and that is what the Cost Effectiveness Panel is going to tell seniors is you just can't get that surgery, you just can't get that test you need. But doctors are going to quit seeing Medicare patients is what is going to happen. I have talked to a lot of physicians. So seniors particularly are going to lose, because they are not going to get the medical services that they need to keep them healthy and keep them living, plus they are going to lose their doctor that they have trust in today.

In fact, in some communities, some patients have difficulty finding a doctor who will take Medicare, and a lot of communities, even in my own community, patients are having a hard time finding a doctor that will take Medicaid, or PeachCare, which is the Georgia SCHIP, State Child Health Insurance Program payment.

Doctors are going to be forced to abandon their acceptance of these patients. They want to see these patients, but they are not going to be able to do so because of the economic squeeze upon the doctors. Right now doctors are being paid less than what it costs them to actually give the service.

Mr. FLEMING. If the gentleman would yield, I would like to extend that another step. Remember that I said earlier the only way doctors are making it now is that private insurance is making up the difference, it is making up the gap, on average $1,800 per family per year that is insured.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. That is not fair either to the private side.

Mr. FLEMING. No. Absolutely. What this bill will do is not only gut Medicare and reduce the reimbursements to physicians already, but it is going to deliberately push people from private insurance, because this so-called competition is going to be an artificial market, which is really a low-ball, and it is going to force employers to push their employees onto this. So you will see Medicare enlarging. And when I say that, I don't necessarily mean in a generic way.

Just today, the Democratic Party released a trial balloon, saying, well, instead of calling it a public option, let's call it Medicare for everyone. Every physician will be paid at the Medicare rates for all these new patients.

So what you have in the end, just to summarize, is a growing Medicare pool or universe and a shrinking private insurance, which will drive insurance costs up steeply, and you will be left with basically a collapsed private insurance market.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. That is the reason we know that millions of people are going to lose their private health insurance, because they are going to be forced off of it and forced into this so-called public option, this government, bureaucrat-run, socialized health care system. And we already see we have several government, bureaucrat-run health care systems, Medicare being probably the most notable one, which is already rationing care.

It tells me as a doctor and you as a doctor when we can put a patient in the hospital or not and how long they can stay there or not, whether they can get a medication or other types of treatments or not. And they want to put everybody in that kind of system? I think not. That is not what is in the best interests of the American people. The American people need to understand this.

We have also been joined by another good friend of mine, also from Louisiana. We are blessed in the Republican Conference with three excellent physicians from the State of Louisiana. Dr. BILL CASSIDY is a gastroenterologist, and he has been working in a public hospital for years and taking care of patients that have had problems with health insurance.

Dr. BILL CASSIDY is one of the sages of the freshman class and an excellent physician from Louisiana. We are blessed to have him here tonight, and we are blessed to have you, Dr. CASSIDY, in the Congress to help us discuss the issues about health care finance reform.

This whole discussion is not about health care reform. We have got the best health care system in the world. Some of the Democrats will refute that statement, but, factually, people come from all over the world for our health care because it is the best in the world.

Dr. CASSIDY, thank you for joining us tonight. I will be glad to yield to you for a while.

Mr. CASSIDY. Thank you, Dr. Broun. I am pleased to be here.

Let me start off by saying I actually totally agree with our Democrat colleagues on the goals of health care reform. We have to control costs. By doing so, you can create access to high quality care.

As you mentioned, I have been working in a hospital for the uninsured for 20-something years, a public hospital in Louisiana, part of our safety net system, so it occurs to me that I know firsthand the need to control costs. In our budget, there is a fixed budget, if you will. If we exceed that, then we don't have the ability to provide more access. We do have to form those long lines. And I kind of applaud the President because he recognizes the need to control costs.

For example, he has more than once said that the price of failure is that costs will double over the next 10 years. In fact, I think the President has said that without his reforms or the reforms he agrees with, that we know that the costs will double over the next 10 years and they will be out of control. I think he recognizes that cost control is one of the three legs of the stool. Again, we must control costs in order to ensure access to high quality care.

But we on the Republican side, I think, have continually pointed out that his programs will lead to higher costs, not lower costs, and that is of concern to me, who has worked in a public hospital, that knows that once costs are out control, then you inevitably have a decrease in access.

I was struck today that there is an independent article that just came across the Associated Press that under the proposed overhauls, the U.S. health care tab would grow. That is the headline. And this is an analysis by the Health and Human Services Department looking at the impact of H.R. 3200 upon overall health care costs.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. Tell me it is not so. It is going to go up? The health care costs are going to go up?

Mr. CASSIDY. You know, in one sense, in one sense it is almost humorous, and in another sense, it is almost tragic. Because what we have been saying all along is that under these proposals, costs actually go up, and we know in our practice when that cost goes up, inevitably there is some sort of squeeze-down on people's access to high quality care.

By this, which is an independent government economist, this is the Medicare Office of the Actuary, it says that the report found that health care would account for 21.3 percent of the U.S. economy in 2019 under these reforms, slightly more than an estimated share of 20.8 percent of the economy if no bill passes.

Additionally, it says that with the exception of the proposed reductions in Medicare, the legislation would not have a significant impact upon future health care gross costs. It adds, it is doubtful that the proposed Medicare cuts will stay in.

What we are seeing is that when the President says that reform must be done or costs will double, indeed, under their reform plan, costs more than double.

Another report by the Congressional Budget Office suggests that under the reform plans before us, including the Senate Finance Committee, that the rate of inflation will be 8 percent per year. That is compounded. That more than doubles costs. At a minimum, reform should not be more expensive than the status quo if cost is the issue.

So, Dr. Broun, I want to return, I think you are right on when you spoke earlier about your bill, and, of course, I am a cosponsor of H.R. 3400, which includes things such as Health Savings Accounts, that actually can bend the cost curve.

I was speaking to a woman back home who does small group insurance. I called her up and I said, If you have a family of four with an HSA and a wraparound catastrophic policy versus a family of four with the traditional insurance policy, what is the rate of inflation?

She said, Well, with the Health Savings Account and the wraparound catastrophic, about 6 percent per year. Now, that actually begins to bend the cost curve down. She said, though, for the traditional insurance policy, it is more along the lines of 9 to 11 percent per year.

So I think what we in this delegation, this conference, have found is that if we empower patients, if we do what a Health Savings Account does, which is take a portion of that health insurance premium, puts it into an account, and if the patient has money left over at the end of the year, it belongs to the patient, she can roll it over into the account the subsequent year, as opposed to a program which empowers government, which is a top-down, central planning Medicaid-Medicare type of program, which, as good as they are, nonetheless have inflation rates which are higher than the inflation rates for even traditional insurance policies. If we go with the patient-empowered process, we control costs. If we go with the same paradigm as this report states, we actually increase costs, the kind of government paradigm.

If I can defer to my colleague from Shreveport, Dr. FLEMING actually has a very nice story about how they brought Health Savings Accounts into their small group and indeed lowered costs.

Mr. FLEMING. I appreciate your yielding for a moment.

Absolutely true. Apart from being a family physician for over 30 years, I have owned small nonmedical businesses for a number of years, over 20 years, and we ran into this same escalation problem, 9, 10, 12, 15 percent, really, per year. Finally we said, What can we do to resolve this? And the Health Savings Account had been enacted again by the Republicans just shortly before that, and I studied it.

I used my background as a physician in the economics of medicine and I said, You know what? This, in effect, connects the patient, in this case me and my employees, back to the real cost of care. It should have a remarkable impact bending the cost curve down. We didn't use that term then because it hadn't been used. But to make a long story short, we implemented it. We are about 7 years down the road now, and our net increase in inflation cost has been less than 3 percent per year.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. That is outstanding.

Let's go back to something we said with both of you, Dr. FLEMING as well as Dr. CASSIDY. H.R. 3200, the Pelosi-ObamaCare bill, is going to raise overall costs of health care in this country. It is not going to lower the cost; it is going to raise the cost. Not only do we have this administration estimate that it is going to increase the cost, but even CBO said it is going to increase the cost. CBO said it is not going to cover everybody.

Mr. CASSIDY. CBO, if I may, the Congressional Budget Office, because I find sometimes we get used to these terms, but the independent arm of Congress that evaluates the fiscal matters, if you will, whether or not something costs more or less or is just right, the Congressional Budget Office says the rate of growth will be 8 percent per year under the plans before us from the House Democratic leadership and the Senate Finance Committee, and that more than doubles costs in 10 years.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. Absolutely. So it is going to cost more money for everybody, and it is going to cost jobs. Millions of people are going to be put out of work by the ObamaCare bill. And we have got all these bills. Every folder has a different bill that the Republicans have introduced, many, many alternatives, that will lower the cost, let me repeat that, lower the cost for everybody and get more people on insurance.

We have also been joined tonight by another good friend, a freshman from Tennessee who has been very eloquent in telling us about the Tennessee experiment that is exactly the same experiment, the same program that Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama and HARRY REID are trying to force upon the American public called TennCare. It didn't work in Tennessee and it is not going to work here. In fact, one of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

We have already done it, haven't we, Dr. ROE?

Mr. ROE of Tennessee. Well, Dr. Broun, we have. Let me say I was here this morning early, and I came to this Congress, I practiced medicine, OB-GYN, delivered almost 5,000 babies, and I came to this Congress with a nonpartisan background as the mayor of Johnson City, Tennessee. That was my political background. So I came here to try to help be part of this great health care debate.

How I started my time off was I brought every think tank that I could find--Brookings Institute, which is a left-leaning think tank, Heritage Foundation, Cato, AEI--into my office and sat down and listened to them and said, What is the problem? How do we define the problem of our country right now as far as health care is concerned?

One of them was escalating costs. How do we deal with that? How do we deal with the uninsured and how do we deal with preexisting conditions?

I think the thing that troubles most of us out there, and me as an individual, quite frankly, is if you lose your job, you lose your health care. That is something that everyone in this country fears, and certainly in a bad job market. So I thought about that at great length and brought some basic principles which we have, and I stood on the House floor this morning and heard three different individuals say that there were no other plans out there.

That is absolutely false.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. Let me interrupt you and just say that we hear that over and over again. We hear claims from the Democrats that the Republicans don't have a plan. Look at all these bills. Every folder has a Republican bill in it. I have my own there. Many other Members, all these are Republican plans, Republican bills to help rein in the costs and give people more options.

Mr. ROE of Tennessee. Well, Dr. Broun, if you'll yield back.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROE of Tennessee. And I heard my good friends, Dr. Fleming from Louisiana and Dr. Cassidy, both mention this. But I looked at it, and I thought How can we make insurance portable? How do you affect preexisting conditions? If you have a large group market, you don't have a problem with preexisting conditions.

For instance, in our city, where I was mayor, it didn't matter. How did we handle a preexisting condition? We took everyone in. Everyone paid the same rate, and we bought catastrophic coverage in case someone had a leukemia or a cancer or a severe heart problem and covered that issue.

We also used prevention and wellness. And I can tell you there are four organizations in my community, in my area, that have had minimal health care increases in the last 4 to 5 years. How do they do that? Well, they change the incentives from consumption to wellness. And let's say you came in and you were hypertensive and you had diabetes and you smoked and you were overweight. Well, we would penalize you financially for that. These organizations--and there are businesses there that have been able to hold their costs down--but if you changed and modified your behavior, we rewarded you for that and you would actually earn money by changing your behavior.

And guess what that's done? That's empowered the patient to be in charge of their own health care. And we hear all the time about insurance companies. And I can tell you right now, I'm not sitting here defending an insurance company. And you and I--I'm a surgeon, and I've spent as much time on the phone trying to get an insurance company to approve care than I actually do in the cases. But in our own practice we have about close to 300 people who get their care from our group, 70 providers, 300 or so employees.

What we did, and what I've done, is use this as a health savings account card. And what Dr. Cassidy was talking about, so people understand how this empowers the individual, is this: so much money, whether it's $2,000 or $3,000 and you go buy first dollar. You're going to shop. I do. If I go get a scan, I want the best price. At the end of that year, if I don't spend that money, it goes into an account, as Doctor Fleming said. Now, how many people in our group chose to use this? Eighty-four percent, instead of traditional accounts, they used a health savings account.

Mr. FLEMING. Will the gentleman yield on that?

Mr. ROE of Tennessee. Yes.

Mr. FLEMING. On the subject of health savings account--and you heard me say our experience was less than 3 percent increase in costs per year. And you point out that it's the employer's dollars that are going into that account, not the employees. It's pre-tax or nontaxed, really; and it's used at the employee's discretion.

Just a quick example: had a lady who, when we first implemented this, she said, Well, I'm a little concerned because this means that I'll have to pay out of pocket, meaning out of the health savings account for my medications for my respiratory problems. And I said, Well, what is it that you take and how much does it cost? And she says, Well, I use several inhalers. It costs me $100, $150 a month for medication. And I suggested, Well, why don't you stop smoking and you'll save money on the tobacco, and you can stop your inhalers, probably. And sure enough, she did: came back 3 months later and thanked me. She felt better. She had a lot more money in her pocket, and it all had to do with the health savings account.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. Reclaiming my time, as a family doctor, it's always been a problem for me to get patients to comply with these wellness suggestions that I make that Dr. Roe is taking about. I talked to a hospital administrator in my district Monday, and he told me that their health insurance plan for their employees has a $2,500 deductible. But what they put in place was, if a patient smoked, they would pay a $2,500 deductible. If they have high blood pressure, they pay a $2,500 deductible. Diabetes, if they didn't lose weight and control their sugar, they had a $2,500 deductible for everybody.

But if you don't smoke, they'd give you a $500 credit. If you controlled your blood pressure, they'd give you another $500 credit. If you controlled your blood sugar, another $500 credit. If you lose weight, another one. And people could actually, by doing these things that we all suggest to our patients to make them healthier, and make them less liable to expend health care dollars, people could actually get credits so they had no deductible. And if an employee didn't have those problems, then they didn't have the deductible because they were already under control, their blood pressure was controlled, their sugar was controlled, et cetera.

So going back to what Dr. Roe said, it was an excellent way of getting their employees to help take care of themselves and lower the cost for them as a company, plus it lowered the cost for all of their employees too. We've also been joined by my good friend, Roy Blunt from Missouri; and we welcome you, Mr. Blunt, anytime for, not only this Doctors Caucus Special Order, but you've got--you're very sage on these issues and I yield to you, sir.

Mr. BLUNT. Well, I thank the gentleman for yielding. It's good to be here on the floor with so many of our Republican doctors. When you're in a debate on health care, and you can say, Doctor, Doctor, Doctor, Doctor, you'd probably better be in a discussion on health care. And I want to say that our Republican doctors have really been doing a great job leading on this issue. Many of them were on the health care solutions group that I led and, you know, we haven't produced an 1,100-page bill or a 1,500-page bill. But there's lots of legislation out there that Republicans are for that would change health care in the right way and a lot of it that you as individuals are supporting as well.

And one thing I've heard, Dr. Broun, all over the summer, throughout the summer and now into these early months of the fall, is why do we have bills that nobody can read, that nobody can understand and certainly, in health care? I suppose if you're on the other side of this issue and you're trying to come up with a health care plan that costs $1 trillion, maybe it all has to work together. You have to have the taxes, you have to have the mandatory insurance for every American, you have to penalize small businesses that don't create insurance for their employees, maybe it all does have to come together.

Certainly in our plan, you can take the bills that we're individually involved in and collectively involved in, for medical liability reform, nothing else has to pass for that medical liability reform bill to save $54 billion. Nothing has to pass for our associated health

association health plans bill to be out there and suddenly allow lots of people to have access to health care that they don't have right now. Nothing else that I'm for has to pass for fair tax treatment so that if you get your insurance on your own, you have the exact same tax treatment that the biggest company in America has if they give insurance to people.

So we've got lots of bills out there. There are Republican solutions. The biggest misleading thing said in this debate, which has lots of misleading elements to it, is you can either do what the administration wants to do, or you can do nothing. There are lots of choices between what the administration wants to do and nothing. They reform health care without devastating taxpayers. And that's what we're doing. And, again, nobody has been better on talking about the doctor/patient relationship and what you do to be sure that doesn't become the bureaucrat/patient relationship than our doctors, and I'm glad to be here on the floor with you and look forward to being part of this discussion for a few minutes.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. Mr. Blunt, I want to point out here we have all these folders here on the desk. Each one contains a Republican bill to help reform the health care financing. Every single one of these, these are all Republican bills that have been introduced in this House of Representatives. Not one will see the light of day if Nancy Pelosi wants to bury them as she has thus far. Every single one of these is a plan that I think we could get a lot of Democrats, if they would ever have the ability to look at them and consider them.

But it's unfortunate that this leadership is saying it's either the Obama way or no way. And then they come and literally lie about us not having a bill. Just this morning during Special Orders, Democrats came in and said we don't have a bill. Here they are. The American people need to understand that.

Mr. BLUNT. If the gentleman would yield, we have plenty of alternatives, and I'm absolutely confident that if you ask the American people would you rather have one 1,500-page bill--I actually heard today that the Senate bill, the Baucus bill, is over 1,500 pages. Would you rather have one 1,500-page bill, or would you rather have 15 bills that were all less than 100 pages that you could debate one at a time, that you could change the system in a way that people understand exactly what you're doing, and that you don't devastate future generations with a health care plan that just simply can't be paid for when we have reforms that would create a lower cost of health care generally, lower cost of taxpayer-provided health care specifically, and not add to the Federal deficit.

And I know the answer to that, doctors. I know the answer to that and you do too. You all were at the town hall meetings. You've been on telephone town halls. And people are tired of bills where the answer, where the problem is hidden somewhere in the bill and nobody can find it. And believe me, if there's a 1,500-page bill, if this Congress stays true to form, there will be a 1,500-page substitute put on the table the day we're asked to vote on it, and nobody will have possibly had time to read it.

The bills right behind you are not only the Republican solutions to this problem, but they're also the way the American people would like to see this problem solved, and we're working hard to do that. We'd just like to have an opportunity to present these bills. We'd like to have an opportunity to have a hearing on these bills. We'd love to have an opportunity for these bills to be debated on the House floor. So far nobody's given us that opportunity at any level.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. Thank you, Mr. Blunt. I appreciate it and appreciate your chairing the task force to look at the health care from the Republican Conference side. We've also been joined by my dear friend and colleague, one of my mentors actually, Dr. Phil Gingrey, OB-GYN from Georgia. He grew up in Augusta, Georgia, that I represent. He was slightly ahead of me in medical school at the Medical College of Georgia, and we're just very honored to have you, Dr. Gingrey. I yield to you, sir.

Mr. GINGREY of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate my colleague, Dr. Broun, for yielding and for controlling the time and my colleagues Dr. Roe and Dr. Fleming. And plus we just heard, Mr. Speaker, from Roy Blunt, former majority whip, long-term member of our leadership. And talking about wouldn't it be better to have fifteen 100-page bills that we could look at and study and understand and take up in a very deliberative manner rather than one 1,500-page bill, or in the case of the House bill, H.R. 3200, I think, Mr. Speaker, we're talking about maybe 1,200 pages.

But, again, you hear this over and over again, whether it's the Sunday morning talk shows or inside the beltway up here, people accuse even President Obama suggesting that we weren't bringing him any good ideas, any meaningful ideas or, you know, the party of ``no.'' Well, Dr. Broun and I and others have spoken about we'll accept that accusation if you spell it correctly, K-N-O-W.

And those bills behind him, behind my colleague from Athens, attest to that fact. And probably my colleagues have already mentioned this. But just in our GOP Doctors Caucus, there are about 12 of us, and I was just looking at a list of bills on health care that have been introduced. Probably most of them are in those binders behind Dr. Broun.

But Dr. Boozman from Arkansas has three different bills, Dr. Boustany from Louisiana--cardiothoracic surgeon--two bills; Dr. Michael Burgess, our colleague from Texas, OB-GYN, has six different bills, including a paid-for doctor fix elimination of that SGR. Dr. Broun has a great bill himself, H.R. 227; Dr. Cassidy has a bill; Dr. Fleming has H.R. 615; Dr. John Linder; Tim Murphy, our colleague from Pennsylvania, has two bills; Dr. Ron Paul from Texas has six different bills; Mike Simpson from Idaho has a bill.

Let me just say real quickly, Mr. Speaker, because I know our time is running short, but you talk about a simple bill, an easy to understand, easy-read bill, my bill, H.R. 3700, here it is, Mr. Speaker. Here it is right here. This is easy. If you drop this bill, it just kind of floats down. But it is so important because H.R. 3700, Ten Prescriptions for Healthy America--I can run through them quickly and not take up too much of my colleagues' remaining time.

Number one, no government-run health plan. I hope my Democratic colleagues on the majority side haven't forgotten what people were telling them in August despite this recent poll they came out with. I think they need to think about that. People don't want a government-run health care plan. They certainly don't want cuts in senior care, that's $500 billion out of a Medicare system and literally gutting Medicare Advantage.

No new deficit spending. And the President said, Hey, not a dime will we add to the deficit. No new taxes. No ration of care, particularly for our seniors. They don't want to get thrown under the bus just so we can spend $1.5 trillion covering an additional 15 million people. That's what, 4 percent of the population--many of whom are young and healthy and really don't want that coverage. No taxpayer coverage for illegal immigrants.

So I could go on and on with these 10, but I know we're running short of time. But it's great to have an opportunity, Mr. Speaker, to let the Democratic majority and their leadership, let the President know we're here, we're ready. You say your door's open, we're knocking on it. We're ready to come in and present some of these ideas.

I yield back to my friend from Athens.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. I want to go back to Dr. ROE for a minute because we've got about 5 more minutes.

In Tennessee, you all put in a government-run health care program, just exactly the same kind of thing that Nancy Pelosi's offering us here in H.R. 3200, or whatever she's writing. We know those things.

Bottom line, very quickly in 30 seconds, did it work, or did it fail, and what was the outcome?

Mr. ROE of Tennessee. Dr. Broun, what happened was exactly as you point out. In 1993, we were spending $2.6 billion. We had a lot in the State of Tennessee on our Medicaid plan. We changed to a plan called TennCare. By the year 2004, it was a $7.5 to $8.5 billion plan. It tripled the cost. Forty-five percent of the people who got on the plan had private health insurance and dropped it--exactly what's going to happen in the public option. And how did the governor, a Democratic governor, rein in costs? He cut the rolls. He rationed care in that way. And that is exactly what will happen in a public option that we're talking about. We'll go into it in more detail.

Let me take 30 seconds and tell you if we could agree on this and pass a meaningful health care bill, this is all you have to do. Eliminate State lines so you can form association health plans; give tax credits for low-income people to buy affordable health care; have a tax deduction for individuals. Last year I was an individual when I ran for Congress, and I couldn't deduct my health care premiums. It made them 30 percent higher.

Number four, let young people who don't have a job when they get out of high school or college, let them stay on their parents' health care until they're 25, 26 years old. It costs the government a big fat zero. You can cover 7 million young people doing that.

Tort reform and SGR fix. Those are not terribly expensive things to do. I think we can all agree on them. And I believe we can get a meaningful health care plan that doesn't blow up a system that's working for 80 or 85 percent of the people right now.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. Thank you, Dr. Roe.

TennCare failed?

Mr. ROE of Tennessee. Yes.

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. ObamaCare is going to fail. It's going to wreck our economy, it's going to put people out of work, and seniors are going to be hurt the most by ObamaCare.

We've got just a minute left.

I would like to go back to Dr. Fleming.

Mr. FLEMING. I just have 15 seconds of a thumbnail little summary I'd like to mention.

If ObamaCare passes, there will be increased taxes for the middle class--which the President promised wouldn't happen--and significantly increased private premiums. It will decrease services to senior citizens. It will explode the budget. And the bottom line is we will pay more for less

Mr. BROUN of Georgia. You're exactly right, Dr. Fleming. We'll pay more for less, we'll get poor quality care. It's going to destroy the quality of health care in this country.

CBO says it's not going to cover everybody, and we hear our Democratic colleagues say they want to cover everybody, but it's not going to. And it's going to hurt everybody. And it's really going to hurt the middle class.

When the President came and spoke to the joint session of Congress a couple of weeks ago, only one person told the truth, and that was Joe Wilson. Joe Wilson is the only person who told the truth.

The ObamaCare bill is going to give free health insurance to illegal aliens, it's going to pay for abortions, it's going to do a lot of things that people don't like. But the bottom line is people are going to be out of work that are working today. It's going to hurt our economy. It's going to hurt the elderly, because they're going to have their health care services cut, and they're not going to be able to get their services from the doctor or from the hospital that they need and deserve because of ObamaCare. And the American people need to understand these things. Millions of people are going to lose a job and be out on the street, and it's going to hurt our economy.

So the American people need to understand these things and rise up and say ``no'' to ObamaCare. Let us have a bipartisan debate on all of these Republican plans so that we can find commonsense market-based solutions for health care.

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