CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript
Interview
BLITZER: Candy Crowley reporting for us.
Let's talk a little bit more about what's going on, as the president meets with his national security team over at the White House.
Joining us now, a key member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.
Senator Graham, thanks very much for coming in.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: It's good to be with you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Is the president right to have these strategy sessions, beginning today, continuing over the next several weeks, even as General McChrystal, the U.S. commander in Afghanistan, effectively has already told Washington, I need tens of thousands of more troops now?
GRAHAM: Well, if the president is looking for a way forward that doesn't include tens of thousands of more troops, I guess he's right to pause.
But the one thing I would urge the president to consider is the 68,000 that are already there. This counterinsurgency strategy is labor- intensive. The goal is not just to dismantle al Qaeda. It's to make sure that Taliban does not take over all or part of Afghanistan, creating a future safe haven.
So, I think you need more troops to achieve the goal of the Taliban not reemerging to control part of Afghanistan.
BLITZER: You understand the debate that's going on within the Situation Room over at the White House apparently right now that those who say the counterinsurgency program which is what you want, what General General McChrystal wants...
GRAHAM: Yes. BLITZER: ... as opposed to those who support a counterterrorism program, which would require way few troops...
GRAHAM: Right.
BLITZER: ... fewer troops.
GRAHAM: Right. Yes, I understand the difference.
The counterterrorism strategy would basically be, you would have a very small military footprint. You would attack targets by drones and special operations. But I think that would result in ceding most of Afghanistan to the Taliban, and you would eventually be driven out.
The training camps that we attacked in the '90s by aerial bombardment was not very successful. The best way to deny al Qaeda a training camp in Afghanistan is to support an Afghan army and police force that can deny them that opportunity, have the Afghan people stand up for themselves with our help.
A counterterrorism strategy, I don't think, will achieve that goal. Afghanistan will fall if that's the way we go.
BLITZER: Because some who support the counterterrorism strategy, a very modest number of troops, as you say, using these...
GRAHAM: Yes.
BLITZER: ... drones and other high technology to try...
GRAHAM: Right.
BLITZER: ... to kill al Qaeda, Taliban...
GRAHAM: Right.
BLITZER: ... an enemy of the United States, the -- the argument is that Afghanistan is not Iraq, whereas a surge may have worked in bringing in the Sunni insurgents in Iraq, it's not going to work in Afghanistan; it's a very different country.
What do you say to those who make that argument?
GRAHAM: Well, I think the reason the Taliban have reemerged, in spite of -- of the Afghan people's dislike for the Taliban, is that the failure of governance and not enough troops have combined to create a vacuum.
So, what we have going for us in Afghanistan is desire by the Afghan people, with sufficient security, to reject the Taliban. I think General McChrystal and Petraeus and Admiral Mullen understand the difference between counterterrorism and counterinsurgency.
And they have made the informed decision the best way to protect our nation and bring about stability in Afghanistan is a counterinsurgency strategy, similar to Iraq, with differences unique to Afghanistan. And I concur in that.
BLITZER: The president is meeting today with all of these top military commanders, and -- and his civilian commanders -- advisers as well. General McChrystal, the commander in Afghanistan, I believe this is only the second time they have discussed what's going on. He's had many discussions with General Petraeus, the overall commander of the Central Command.
Is -- is he talking enough to his commanders, though, on the ground?
GRAHAM: Well, you know, that surprised me a bit, but I don't want to overly politicize this or second-guess the president.
We're not playing a game here. General McChrystal came up with a game plan to move forward that he thinks will lead to success. I know he's not playing a game. And I know the president is deadly serious about this. He's very concerned about what happens with the government of Afghanistan.
We had some poor elections. And I understand that, Mr. President, that there is no guarantee that this government will ever step up to the plate, but, without better -- better security, there is no hope to turn things around.
So, I don't question the president's intensity. I don't question his desire to get this right. I know he's concerned about our troops and how to move forward.
The only thing I would recommend to him to do is listen to these commanders, who know what they are doing, and I will stand by you, as a Republican, if you ask for more troops.
This is not President Obama's war. This is America's war.
BLITZER: One final question on Iran right now.
There was an intriguing article in "The Financial Times" entitled "Iran Has Seek Nuclear Arms Plan," in which the lead of the article said this: "Britain's intelligence services say that Iran has been secretly designing a nuclear warhead since late 2004 or early 2005, an assessment that suggests Tehran has embarked on the final steps towards acquiring nuclear weapons capability."
Is that consistent with what you have heard?
GRAHAM: I think I would assume the worst, rather than hope for the best, when it comes to Iran.
I don't know the state of their nuclear program, but I think they are trying to develop a nuclear weapon, not peaceful nuclear power. And I don't think anyone has a good handle exactly on where Iran is at.
But, given the evidence that we have before us and this report you just mentioned, I think it would be smart for the international community to assume the worst about their nuclear program, and impose sanctions quickly that will change behavior. And be decisive. Don't be timid.
And what we do in Afghanistan about how we handle that situation sends a signal to Iran, one way or the other. So, I think bold action, not half-measures, is needed, both in Afghanistan and Iran.
BLITZER: Lindsey Graham is the senator from South Carolina.
Senator Graham, thanks for coming in.
GRAHAM: Thank you.
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