MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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MR. SCHULTZ: Joining me now from the Republican side is Senator John Barrasso.

Senator Barrasso, thanks for your time tonight.

You know, I have to give the Republicans credit. When you draw a line in the sand, at least you know where it is and you don't cross that line. And I think that the Republicans have done a good job of intimidating the Democrats on this issue, if I'm not too critical on my friends over on the Democratic side.

But let me ask you this, Senator. I know you're going to tell me that you don't want to put the government between me and my doctor. How are you going to get that insurance executive out of the way and reduce costs?

SEN. BARRASSO: I don't want anyone between a patient and their doctor, anyone -- not a government bureaucrat and not an insurance bureaucrat -- nobody.

MR. SCHULTZ: Well, the insurance guy is right now.

SEN. BARRASSO: Keep them out of there. Well, as a doctor who's practiced medicine for 25 years, I fought with insurance agents and bureaucrats as well as government people. But, you know, Medicare is not what you make it out to be. It is the biggest deadbeat in the country in terms of paying. That's why the cost for other people is up so high, because of the cost-shifting. But we are sitting down in a bipartisan way, Ed, 16 of us yesterday, eight Republican senators, eight Democrat senators, saying we need a bipartisan solution --

MR. SCHULTZ: Do you --

SEN. BARRASSO: -- to get the cost of care down for all Americans.

MR. SCHULTZ: Okay, do you --

SEN. BARRASSO: Yes, we want to cover those that don't have insurance. But what we need to do is get the cost of care down for everyone.

MR. SCHULTZ: Okay, Senator, do you agree with Senator Grassley that there's no way the Republicans will go along with a public option?

SEN. BARRASSO: Not as I see it listed right now, which is to me a government takeover of medicine in this country.

MR. SCHULTZ: No -- (laughs) --

SEN. BARRASSO: I want to give people more choice. I want to get the cost down, and I want to do it in a way without a government takeover.

MR. SCHULTZ: It's not a government takeover, but we could go for hours on this discussion.

SEN. BARRASSO: We could.

MR. SCHULTZ: The point being here is that you're willing to go against 72 percent of the American people. Is that correct?

SEN. BARRASSO: Well, even Senator Feinstein, Democrat from California, said she didn't think that the president had the votes. And I look at that poll and I'm not convinced that that's what it really says, because what I see is, two to one, Americans are saying that the president doesn't have a firm plan to handle this large deficit.

MR. SCHULTZ: But you're --

SEN. BARRASSO: Well, you took the poll --

MR. SCHULTZ: But Senator, you're --

SEN. BARRASSO: -- and now the Congressional Budget Office came out and said, "Hey, look, we're going to have to spend a trillion dollars." It's only going to cover 16 million of the 46 million without insurance. And it's going to do what the president said he didn't want to do.

MR. SCHULTZ: Well, that's not a --

SEN. BARRASSO: It's going to force people who have current insurance to lose their insurance, Ed.

MR. SCHULTZ: Senator, that is not a final report.

SEN. BARRASSO: So look at that.

MR. SCHULTZ: That's a preliminary report. We've spent a trillion dollars on Iraq and that didn't seem to bother anybody over on the conservative side.

SEN. BARRASSO: The reason it's a preliminary report, Ed, is because it doesn't even include this government option. The big parts of the Kennedy bill haven't even been scored. This is going to be $2.3 (trillion), maybe $3 trillion over the 10-year plan, once it's a mature program.

MR. SCHULTZ: But there's a majority of Americans --

SEN. BARRASSO: So this is not what the American --

MR. SCHULTZ: But Senator, there's a majority of Americans who are willing to have their taxes increased to make sure this gets done. It's going to be a job creator. You're going to get everybody covered. People are going to be able to be sick and die in dignity and have some coverage. Right now you've got a private industry that's running over the middle class, running over business. It's taken over our economy. And your party is saying --

SEN. BARRASSO: How much are you going to have to increase it?

MR. SCHULTZ: -- you're against a public option.

SEN. BARRASSO: How much are you going to have to increase their taxes? I mean, you're saying people want to have tax increases. I don't think they have a full understanding because we haven't heard yet from the Congressional Budget Office how much everyone's taxes are going to have to go up. I think a government-run plan is the worst thing that could happen --

MR. SCHULTZ: All right.

SEN. BARRASSO: -- because soon it would be the only plan that we have in the country. And the people of Wyoming say they realize this is the wrong way to go.

MR. SCHULTZ: Well, there's, I think, 68,000 people in Wyoming that are on the government plan, and I don't think you get 68,000 calls to your office every day saying it's no good.

Senator, you're a good sport for coming on. Thanks so much.

SEN. BARRASSO: Thank you, Ed. It's always a pleasure.

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