MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

MSNBC "HARDBALL WITH CHRIS MATTHEWS" INTERVIEW WITH SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN); SENATOR ROBERT MENENDEZ (D-NJ)

INTERVIEWER: CHRIS MATTHEWS

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MR. MATTHEWS: We begin with the battle over Judge Sotomayor.

Senator Amy Klobuchar is a Minnesota Democrat and a member of the Judiciary Committee, and Senator Robert Menendez is a New Jersey Democrat who heads the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee.

Well, let me ask Senator Klobuchar right off the bat, what do you make of these charges? I mean, Glenn Beck's calling her a chick lady. The terminology out there is really going over the top.

SEN. KLOBUCHAR: Well, you know, it is unbelievable -- the name- calling, the shame-calling. It just never ends. I don't think it's a surprise. You see this in these kinds of battles. I think what is good is you don't hear this from the Republicans on the Judiciary Committee. They have promised a thorough and civil hearing. I think that's a good sign, Chris.

But, you know, when you look at this woman, she is someone that not only knows the law and knows the Constitution; she also knows America. And all of these comments about when she has made some comments about her background and how it contributes to her understanding of the world, you see that all the time, Chris.

My favorite was the comment we found from Judge Alito in his own confirmation hearing. When Senator Coburn asked him if his background and his immigrant background mattered to him, he actually said -- I have the quote -- "When I get a case about discrimination, I have to think about people in my own family who suffered discrimination because of their ethnic background or because of religion or because of gender, and I do take that into account."

So, you know, the things that they are taking out of context that she said is outrageous. The bottom line is you look at this woman's background -- she came from, in her own words, modest and humble circumstances; she went to the top of her high school class; she was one of the top two people in her class in college; went on to become a fearless prosecutor, in the words of her boss; into private practice; more experience on the bench than anyone that has sat on the Supreme Court in 70 years. She is qualified. And I'm looking forward to meeting her, to asking her questions, before I make a final decision. But certainly all of this name-calling has no place here. This is a dignified woman. She deserves a dignified hearing.

MR. MATTHEWS: Well, before we get to Senator Menendez, let's take a look at Tom Tancredo. He, of course, ran for president last year. Here he is talking about the candidate on "The Ed Show" last night.

FORMER REP. TOM TANCREDO (R-CO): (From videotape.) I'm telling you, she appears to be a racist. She said things that are racist. In any other context, that's exactly how we would portray it. And there's no one that would get on the Supreme Court saying a thing like that except for an Hispanic woman, and you're going to say, "It doesn't matter."

MR. MATTHEWS: Okay, Senator Menendez, I want to ask you -- you're a Cuban-American. I know -- well, let's talk about the history here. This is interesting that this woman has taken all this flak, even sexist terminology being thrown out there. But a lot of this stuff just seems diminishing about her. It just seems to paint her as small. There's an interesting angle to a lot of this abuse.

SEN. MENENDEZ: Well, Chris, I think they're taking an enormous risk here. First of all, to take someone who is an American success story, grew up in the public housing projects in the South Bronx, graduated valedictorian of her high school, went on and got a scholarship to Princeton University, graduated second at Princeton, and then went on to Yale Law School and became the Yale Law School editor of the Law Review, then went on to become a tough prosecutor in Manhattan, went on to become a corporate litigator and then to become a district court judge, a federal district court judge and a second circuit appellate judge -- she will bring to the United States Supreme Court more federal experience than any justice who has sat on the court for 100 years.

And so all of these comments about her gender, her ethnicity, are ways in which you cannot take a stellar record, and since you can't find anything in that stellar record, you go through all of these other comments, which I think are debasing and ultimately are consequential to those who give it, and it seems to be coming largely from the Republican Party. And that's a big consequence to them.

MR. MATTHEWS: Well, here's Rush Limbaugh spouting off on the matter. Here he is today. Let's listen -- just today, fresh in.

RUSH LIMBAUGH (radio talk show host): (From audiotape.) Look, bigotry is bigotry. Racism is racism. Superiority is superiority. Contempt for people beneath you is contempt for people beneath you. Thinking you're better than everybody else is thinking you're better than everybody else. This woman has all of this.

MR. MATTHEWS: Senator Menendez, you're in charge of getting Democrats more Senate seats next year. Is this going to help?

SEN. MENENDEZ: Well, our focus is on getting a great United States Supreme Court justice. And President Obama has nominated such a person.

You know, when I hear Rush Limbaugh, who I didn't know has legal talent and legal experience, make these comments -- here's a judge who has been universally recognized by her colleagues as a tough questioner, as someone who follows the facts, and therefore follows the law, and doesn't reach outside of the case before her to try to get to other issues that are not before the court. She has been persistently committed to the rule of law.

And so when you can't ultimately affect someone's reputation because they have consistently worked in an exemplary way -- with great intellect, I would add -- then you do all these other things. I think it's going to be real consequential to them. You know, this Republican Party has to understand that tearing down a woman, tearing down a woman who happens to be Hispanic but who happens to have great intellect and a great judicial record, is going to be very consequential to them politically.

And I think -- look at the poll that came out today. Overwhelmingly the impression of Americans of Judge Sotomayor is what it should be -- a great American success story of a great judge with great talent, great intellect, and a respect for the rule of law. And that's what they can't attack, and that's why they're doing all these other things.

MR. MATTHEWS: Well, Senators, Glenn Beck disagrees with you. Here he is today on the radio talking about the nominee.

GLENN BECK (television and radio talk show host): (From audiotape.) They're just, like, "Hey, Hispanic chick lady, you're empathetic?" She says, "Yep." They say, "You're in." That's the way it really works.

MR. MATTHEWS: Let me ask you, Senator Klobuchar, about these people, because I think there's an interesting thing going on on the right. I want your review of it. I think they're stirring up the right, the people listening on the radio, white males, who don't like a lot of changes in our culture over the last 20 or 30 years. They're not the Republican Party that decides elections. They're certainly not the 50-some percent they've been able to get in some elections. But they are a crazy corner of the Republican Party.

Do you have a sense that this is going to end up helping your party?

SEN. KLOBUCHAR: You know, I don't know --

MR. MATTHEWS: Same question I put to Senator Menendez. You guys don't want to -- you act so agnostic when I ask you these questions, like the last thing that would ever occur to you is politics. It would never occur to you. But doesn't this cacophony from the right, which sounds sexist -- it sounds anti-Hispanic -- end up helping the Republicans (sic/means Democrats) get more women votes? You got 56 percent of women last time, almost 57 percent.

SEN. KLOBUCHAR: Chris, you know --

MR. MATTHEWS: It sounds like it's heading toward 60 today. Go ahead.

SEN. KLOBUCHAR: We don't want to go down in the mud with these guys, because I've got to tell you, it didn't work in the presidential election when they did this. This is about a Supreme Court nominee. And they are just going to throw everything at her. And what really matters is what she stands for, as Senator Menendez said, what her record is about. Look at this -- 400 written decisions; I think something like five she was only reversed on.

You look at her; she goes down the line. She doesn't see the law as some dusty book in her grandma's basement, but she looks at how it affects people in their day-to-day lives. And people in America have listened the last few days. They've watched her, they've seen her, and they believe that she's someone that they can trust. They want to see the hearings. They're going to make a final decision then. But we are not going to get in the mud with these guys with names about "chick ladies." That's not where I'm going.

MR. MATTHEWS: Okay, let me ask you about a new court decision that may be coming down the road. Two respected lawyers in this country, of course -- let's see -- what's his name? -- David Boies and Ted Olson; of course, Ted Olson leading the pack here, because he's the conservative -- pushing to take a 14th Amendment case to the Supreme Court on the California Prop 8; in other words, taking to the Supreme Court the question of whether the 14th Amendment, which protects you, which has substantive equal protection in it.

Is that possibly going to be a case where the Supreme Court allows and protects people the rights to same-sex marriage? Senator Klobuchar, do we see that coming down the road here, like the Lawrence case?

SEN. KLOBUCHAR: You know, we'll have to see. I think a lot of the legal scholars that looked at this and looked at Proposition 8, what would happen, they weren't that surprised by the decision. I think ultimately -- we'll see what happens with this case, but ultimately I think this is going to be an issue that's going to be decided on a state-by-state basis. And I think that might be okay.

MR. MATTHEWS: State by state.

What about you, Senator Menendez? Do you think the Supreme Court might guarantee the right to same-sex marriage in a big court decision coming down the road?

SEN. MENENDEZ: Well, we'll look at if the court takes the case, and ultimately what it decides. If it takes it -- I mean, at the end of the day, I would think that this court, as it's composed right now, I'd find that hard to believe that they would uphold that decision.

MR. MATTHEWS: But you had a 6-3 decision in the last court, with Sandra Day O'Connor and Anthony Kennedy, in the case knocking out sodomy and using the liberty clause. Why wouldn't they just go a step further and say you have a right to marry as well? It seems like the next step.

SEN. MENENDEZ: Well, again, Chris, I understand what your view is, but you're not sitting on the Supreme Court right now. (Laughs.) This court, as it's composed, I'm not sure that, in fact, that's where they'd go.

MR. MATTHEWS: It's not my view yet. I'm trying to figure this thing out, Senator.

Let me ask you about something you're much closer to.

SEN. KLOBUCHAR: Although I do like the idea -- I like the idea of nominating you, because then we wouldn't call you a chick lady. That would be good.

SEN. MENENDEZ: (Laughs.)

MR. MATTHEWS: Well, I'm sure people would think of something else even worse.

But let me go to this question, Senator Menendez -- and I'm sure there's worse out there. What do you think about Roland Burris's performance on this show last night where he said his defense in that whole thing was that he didn't pay to play because he intended to renege on the promise to pay the governor? He was going to pay for the seat, but, you know, he didn't really intend to do that; he was just lying to the guy.

SEN. MENENDEZ: Well, I've caught not the original, but I've caught glimpses of it. I'll just say I don't quite understand Senator Burris's explanation. And, of course, the biggest explanation he'll have to give is to the people of Illinois, should he choose to run for re-election. And, of course, he still has a pending case before the Senate Ethics Committee.

So, you know, we'll see how that all plays out. But I have to be honest with you, Chris. I didn't quite understand it.

MR. MATTHEWS: Do you support another nominee out there as chairman of the party campaign committee? Would you like to see another nominee challenge him next year for the nomination?

SEN. MENENDEZ: We will see how it unfolds. There is already one other candidate, the state treasurer, Alex Giannoulias, who has announced. There are others who are looking at it. I believe the attorney general of the state is looking at it. There may be others as well. And so we'll have to see how the race ends up.

Of course, you know, we see in several states where we've got a wealth of candidates, and sometimes our challenge is trying to narrow that down. We'll see how this one unfolds as well.

MR. MATTHEWS: Okay, thank you very much, Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, Senator Bob Menendez of New Jersey.

END.

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