CNBC "The Kudlow Report" - Transcript

Interview

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MR. KUDLOW: Earlier this evening, I spoke to Ranking Republican Member of the Senate Finance Committee Senator Charles Grassley of Iowa about the wisdom of kicking out foreign high-tech workers. I asked the senator to expand on his logic.

(Begin videotaped interview.)

SEN. GRASSLEY: Well, of course. First of all, you've got to remember that we've got 8 percent unemployment. That 8 percent unemployment might not have anything to do with the H-1B program. Because whether it's 8 percent unemployment or 2 percent unemployment, the H-1B program is meant to import workers when we don't have American workers. So there's two reforms that I'm trying to accomplish. One is there's significant fraud in the program, to take the fraud out. And secondly, to make sure that businesses in the United States make a good-faith effort to seek American workers and, only if American workers aren't available, to bring H-1Bs in because you see there wouldn't be an excuse for H-1B workers if there wasn't maybe inadequacy of American workers.

MR. KUDLOW: Well, don't we have a skill shortage? I mean, I always read -- I don't have the numbers in front of me -- but I always read we don't have enough engineers, especially techie electric-type engineers. We don't graduate enough science people. We don't graduate enough math people. You know, some of these big tech companies out there in Silicon Valley, what, Microsoft, Google, Cisco to name a few, when you run the H-1B, what are they? Are they auctions or are they openings? Sixty-five thousand get filled up in a couple of days. Many people want to double or triple it. I mean, aren't you cutting right into the need for high-tech knowledge?

SEN. GRASSLEY: I don't dispute anything you say. But remember, H-1Bs and the importation of workers was not to compete with American workers, it was to fill a need. Now, if there's a need, then I'm perfectly willing to have H-1B workers imported. But I won't stand for the fraud in the program. In other words, fraud in the program would be an example of where people come in to be managers or high- tech workers and they end up running a laundromat or they're brought in to work in certain counties in the United States and they don't work in those counties. So take the fraud out. But the most important thing -- go ahead.

MR. KUDLOW: Everyone agrees with you on the fraud, sir. There's no question about that. But look, you know, you know these arguments, but I do want to repeat them. Why should we educate -- I mean, many of these people are educated at American universities, and we have to push them out of the country. Then they come here, they are legalized, they play by the rules, they pay taxes, which Lord knows we need with budget deficits and Social Security and Medicare. And in fact they're out there buying houses, especially in California which is a disaster. I mean, besides the skill sets and the fact that they can help us recover, it seems to me it's a win-win-win-win rather than lose.

SEN. GRASSLEY: Well, I have some sympathy for taxpayers educating people and we don't make use of them. I can have sympathy for that. I think that falls more into the green card category than it does the H-1B category. But regardless, we want to make sure that a program that is set up to satisfy a need, because there might not be qualified American workers, fills that need and nothing more. So all we're asking in the reform is that American business make a good-faith effort to seek out American workers first. And then if they aren't available then, yes, we ought to be using people under H-1B.

MR. KUDLOW: We may lose the tech window. I just want to say, are you worried about a Republican message problem here also? All this sounds punitive. All this sounds like, you know, we're throwing them out. We got creamed in the Hispanic vote, the Latin vote, the Asian vote in the last election. Aren't you worried that you're just kind of creating the wrong message or extending the wrong message?

SEN. GRASSLEY: I think your question refers to good politics making good policy. I'm not a believer in that. I'm a believer in good policy makes good politics.

MR. KUDLOW: Well, I appreciate that, sir. And I also appreciate your efforts. I'm just a city on the hill, Senator. I want to attract the best people from around the world. They come here. They make our economy strong, and they make our country great. That's my objection to this.

SEN. GRASSLEY: And I have nothing against immigration. I'm for legal immigration. I'm a product three generations removed from immigration. Our country is great because of our diversity, but we have laws, those laws have to be followed.

MR. KUDLOW: All right. Senator Charles Grassley, I appreciate you, from Iowa.

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