MSNBC "Morning Joe" - Transcript

Interview

MSNBC "Morning Joe" - Transcript

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MS. BRZEZINSKI: Obama held a bipartisan gathering -- of congressional leaders last night, including Democratic House Majority Whip, Congressman James Clyburn, who is here with us now.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

REP. CLYBURN: Well, thank you so much for having me.

MS. BRZEZINSKI: Well, the Republicans, including Boehner there, who you just heard, think there's too much spending in the Obama stimulus bill, and not enough tax cut. To that you say what, sir?

REP. CLYBURN: Well, I say poppycock. I think that what we've done here is put together a pretty balanced program. We have a lot of tax cuts here.

The problem the Republicans have is that they would like for us to use marginal rates on their income taxes. President Obama campaigned on using payroll taxes so that 95 percent of the American people will, in fact, get a tax cut. And so I believe that that's what we've done.

Now, we brought in a lot of experts who told us that this was a good balance. The -- who was it, Zandi? -- who advised John McCain in his campaign, says that this is a good way to do it. He has endorsed the House plan.

MS. BRZEZINSKI: Dylan --

REP. CLYBURN: We had about a hundred CEOs to come up, send letters, endorsing this plan. So I think it's a good plan.

And Boehner's a good guy, but Boehner's not an economist. He's not listening to the experts.

MR. RATIGAN: What assurances can you give the American people that we're not going to see a TARP, take two? And what I mean is there is this crisis environment around the legislation.

Last time around, we were told we've got to get it done, we've got to get it done now, it's going to be a disaster. We basically got no structural or systemic oversight for that money. We're now going to do whatever this is going to end up being, call it a trillion (dollars) or $800 billion.

What are you going to do to assure the American people that we can keep track of this money beyond "trust us"?

REP. CLYBURN: Well, everything is going up on the Internet right away, so that the American people can, in fact, keep track.

You know, we've got a saying down South that there's no education in the second kick of a mule, and I think we got kicked by Paulson. We trusted him to do what he said he was going to do, and when we approved the program he went off and started trying to save institutions rather than trying to rehabilitate mortgages, as we thought he would do.

So we have put into this program a lot of safeguards, a lot of accountability -- accountability is really the watchword here -- so that the American people can be a part of us keeping track of how this money is being spent.

MS. BRZEZINSKI: Carlos Watson?

MR. WATSON: Congressman Clyburn, I know that President Obama was at the Pentagon yesterday meeting with leaders, talking about the possible buildup in troops in Afghanistan, and possibly decreasing the level of troops in Iraq.

How much did he talk about that last night during the cocktail hour, or was the entire evening focused on the economic stimulus plan?

REP. CLYBURN: Well, I did not talk about that with President Obama, but I did talk about that with Vice President Joe Biden. He was with him at that meeting.

And we talked about the interaction between the president and the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the other Pentagon officials. And he told me that it was a very cordial meeting, a very sobering meeting, and a very, I think, productive meeting.

And so we didn't get into the details of what they talked about, but Vice President Biden told me that he thought it was a very productive meeting.

MR. WATSON: Congressman, let me ask you, do you still think that we will draw down the troops within roughly 16 months, as President Obama suggested as a candidate during the campaign, or right now are they setting expectations that it could take longer?

REP. CLYBURN: Well, he also said during the campaign that he would follow the advice of the people on the ground, and that's what he was doing on -- yesterday, consulting with them, trying to develop a way forward, to get this done in a way that would allow him to focus where he would like to focus, and that's on Afghanistan and a drawdown in Iraq.

And I think all this is taking place, and I've been kind of following the discussions, and I'm very pleased with the pace that we're going. I don't want to see him rush into anything.

We want to get this thing done right, just like we're trying to do with the economy. So there's no need to try to hold fast to a 16- month timetable when you can take your time and do it in 18 months.

MR. GEIST: Congressman Clyburn, Willie Geist here. I want to return to the stimulus package for just a second, because you got zero -- no Republican votes.

MS. BRZEZINSKI: Not one.

MR. GEIST: One of our earlier guests suggested this was not about Barack Obama. This was about settling old scores, sending a message to Nancy Pelosi and to Harry Reid.

Do you adhere to that argument?

REP. CLYBURN: No, I don't think that at all. I think this was about playing to the base. This is what -- listening to political hacks and to other blowhards, rather than listening to the experts.

I don't think that Nancy Pelosi was the object of the vote at all, any more than the last time we had this kind of a problem economically. It was back in 1993, and for some strange reason, we didn't get a single Republican vote back then.

But it worked, and it worked very well, and we had a very, very productive growth in our economy -- some people say, the most productive years that we've ever had in the last half-century.

So just because you get bipartisan support doesn't mean it will work. And just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it will fail.

None of us know exactly where we will go with this. They're using the best minds in the country. We're bringing in the experts and we're trying to follow their advice. And that's what Speaker Pelosi was doing, and that's what we did when they got 244 votes.

And so I think that was a very good vote, when we only needed 218.

MR. GEIST: Congressman, any chance the blowhard to which you're referring is Rush Limbaugh?

(Laughter.)

MS. BRZEZINSKI: Yeah. Just wondering.

MR. GEIST: Just curious.

REP. CLYBURN: Well, you know, I try to be the Southern gentleman --

(Laughter, cross talk.)

MR. GEIST: Okay. Good, good. You are a gentleman. We'll leave it there with you.

REP. CLYBURN: No name calling. Carlos knows that. He's --

(Laughter, cross talk.)

MR. WATSON: I know that. I know that (well ?) he doesn't want to go after the man from Missouri. (Laughter.)

MS. BRZEZINSKI: All right. Congressman Clyburn, thank you very much. Good to see you again, sir.

REP. CLYBURN: Thank you so much for having me.

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