MSNBC Interview- Transcript

Interview

MS. MITCHELL: Emmanuel Cleaver, a Democrat from Missouri.

Congressman, thanks for joining us. Let me ask you first about the vote that we expect to be tomorrow coming up on the bill. You voted against it the first time around. Now, having seen what the Senate has done, are you in favor of the rescue plan?

REP. CLEAVER: Well, not because of the -- not because of the vote of the Senate. I'm in favor of it because I have additional information that will allow me to make a different decision. And when you look at what happened in the city I used to lead as mayor of Kansas City and find out that they cannot sell $200 million in water and sewer bonds, it has to cause me to think twice. We're having -- 50 percent of student loans are now being rejected, so this is a very real and serious problem, and I think members of the House -- not because of what the Senate did but because of additional information -- are probably going to approve this on tomorrow.

MS. MITCHELL: With all due respect, Congressman, that vote on Monday was one of the most important votes you'll ever make. You're suggesting that members of Congress did not have adequate information. You didn't know -- from all the warnings from Ben Bernanke and from Hank Paulson, nobody warned you that there would be a credit freeze, that students wouldn't be able to get loans, that auto dealers wouldn't be able to replace their inventory, that bond issues wouldn't fly?

REP. CLEAVER: As a member of the Financial Services Committee, which is the banking committee in the House, two weeks earlier we were told that the U.S economy was in good shape, that the fundamentals of our economy were safe and sound and that we had nothing to worry about. When you get a flip over a 14-day period and asked to bail out the U.S. economy to the tune of $1 trillion -- not 700 billion (dollars) but $1 trillion, you know, you make decisions in haste and sometimes you repent of them a little later. And we, I think, needed to have time to think this thing over, to talk to people back home.

I mean, I don't know if the people around the country understand the enormity of what was asked of us in a very short period of time, and you need to also consider the fact that most members of Congress -- not most, all of us -- were getting 99-to-1 responses from our district to oppose this legislation. And I think we needed the additional time of being able to go home to sit down and talk with bankers, to talk with community leaders, to talk with people in educational institutions, and I think that's what happened.

And in addition to that, I think there have been some signs since last week that would suggest that what Ben Bernanke and Hank Paulson were suggesting is in fact true. Now, this may not solve the problem -- what we're going to do tomorrow may not solve the problem -- but I think that the failure to act is going to create, I think, something that no one in this country would even like to imagine.

MS. MITCHELL: You know, the inescapable conclusion from what you've just said is that the people who call your office and hammer you guys and pressure you are the most vocal but that sometimes Congress votes on major things -- and I can't think of a bigger vote than this except a vote to go to war -- that sometimes Congress votes without knowing what they're voting on or not knowing the real facts. And that's a pretty scary conclusion.

REP. CLEAVER: I think what the American public ought to be pleased with is that members of Congress would not act without trying to get all of the facts, without making sure that they -- significantly reviewed everything that was possible. The bill was 106 pages. We got it the day before; 106 pages, I think that we need to be a deliberative body, and I think you saw that, and I think that we have to factor in a number of things. We have to read the legislation, get a complete understanding of the legislation, listen to the people back home, and then I think people are now, having gone home and returned to Washington, in a better position to make a decision.

MS. MITCHELL: Do you think the vote will be tomorrow, and do you think it will pass?

REP. CLEAVER: I am somewhat optimistic. I think when you're looking at the response that people are still getting from home, there are people who may not want to go in this direction, because if they're in an election, please understand that the opponent is going to pound them and will do so successfully if they vote for this measure.

Now, I think it's going to take some enormous courage on the part of members of the House to stand up and say "Look, I know that the overwhelming majority of the people in my district are opposed to this but I have looked at all of the particulars related to this matter and I've come to the conclusion that the failure to pass some kind of rescue plan could be -- could cause a cataclysm -- or economic cataclysm the likes of which this nation has not seen since 1929. And therefore I'm going to vote yes."

MS. MITCHELL: All right, that's one. They only need nine more, assuming they don't lose any on the other side.

Emmanuel Cleaver, Congressman from Missouri. Thanks so very much for joining us today.

REP. CLEAVER: Good to talk with you.

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