NBC Saturday Today - Transcript

NBC News Transcripts

SHOW: Saturday Today (7:00 AM ET) - NBC

HEADLINE: Senator Susan Collins, Republican from Maine, and Senator Ben Nelson, Democrat from Nebraska, discuss Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's testimony on Capitol Hill regarding Iraqi prisoner abuse

ANCHORS: LESTER HOLT; CAMPBELL BROWN

BODY:
LESTER HOLT, co-host:

Now to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's testimony Friday on Capitol Hill. Maine Senator Susan Collins and Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson are on the Senate Armed Services Committee and they were at the hearing.

Senator Collins, Senator Nelson, good morning to both of you. Thanks for coming on with us this morning.

Senator SUSAN COLLINS (Republican, Maine): Good morning.

Senator BEN NELSON (Democrat, Nebraska): Good morning.

HOLT: Senator Nelson, if I can begin with you-you just heard Campbell's discussion about Specialist Harmon who says that there were military intelligence, that there were contractors, CIA, who were part of this murky chain of command. You had the-the defense secretary on the stand for about three hours yesterday. Was he ever clear to you about how the chain of command worked at that prison?

Sen. NELSON: No, not at all. I think-well, in the sense that I think he thought it was a traditional chain of command. But there seems to be significant evidence that there was a severing of the chain of command from the military by outside contractors and by CIA and perhaps other military intelligence officials. So you don't have what appears to be the usual chain of command.

HOLT: Let me ask Senator Collins. Yesterday, you talked to Secretary Rumsfeld in your questioning and suggested that he needed to have come forward long before this with this story, with this investigation. I want to play his response and then pick up with you. Here it is.

Sec. RUMSFELD: But I wish I knew how you reach down into a criminal investigation when it is not just a criminal investigation, but it turns out to be something that is radioactive.

HOLT: Senator Collins, were you satisfied with that answer?

Sen. COLLINS: I really wasn't. It seems to me that the secretary, without commenting on the role of the specific soldiers involved, could have come forward, held a press conference, told what he knew, expressed concern and outrage, and pledge to the world that corrective steps would be taken. And I'm disappointed that he did not do that early enough. It might have lessened the impact of this abuse, particularly in the Muslim communities.

HOLT: Well, it's apparent from the questioning before the Senate committee as well as the House that Congress doesn't like surprises. Senator Collins, Secretary Rumsfeld noted that there are other pictures and video out there. Do you think that there are more surprises coming your way, coming the American people's way on this?

Sen. COLLINS: Unfortunately, I do from what the secretary testified yesterday, there are videos and many additional pictures. That's very disturbing. I think we haven't gotten to the bottom of this yet.

HOLT: Senator Nelson, resignation is a word that is resounding right now on Capitol Hill. Secretary Rumsfeld took that question at least a couple of times. Let me play his response, and then I'd like to explore that further with you. Here it is.

Sen. NELSON: Sure.

Sec. RUMSFELD: If I-if I thought that I could not be effective, I certainly wouldn't want to serve. And I have to wrestle with that. I will add I'm certainly not going to resign because some people are trying to make a political issue out of it.

HOLT: Is this being made a political issue, Senator Nelson?

Sen. NELSON: Well, I-I think it's probably too early to tell. I think there is a lot of concerns, and they were raised yesterday, and others have raised them in other context. But I think the secretary will take a look at it. The president has some responsibility here, and has said that the secretary serves at his pleasure, and he is still satisfied with his performance. But as things go along, if there's any actionable misbehavior here in the chain of command, I suspect this question will continue to be raised.

HOLT: But as that question is weighed as to whether he should resign or be fired, should that be weighed strictly on the basis of the prisoner abuse stories, or his handling of the prosecution of the war in general?

Sen. NELSON: Well, I think they are both important issues. There-there's no question that following the major combat phase of the battles that there hasn't been a very significant plan. So a lot of folks are very disturbed by what has and hasn't happened in Iraq, and then when you add that to the prisoner abuse issue, obviously there are going to be people calling for his resignation, unhappy with the performance.

HOLT: All right. Well have to end our conversation right there. Senators-Senator Susan Collins and Senator Ben Nelson, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

Sen. NELSON: Thank you.