Fox News "Just In With Laura Ingraham" - Transcript

Interview

MS. INGRAHAM: And we begin tonight with Barack Obama's domestic agenda. Will the candidate of change take his party and the country in a new direction? Just in to discuss is Senate Majority Whip and Obama's national campaign co-chair Illinois Senator Dick Durbin.

Senator Durbin, good to see you.

SEN. DURBIN: Good to be with you.

MS. INGRAHAM: Senator Durbin, I'm looking at the Real Clear Politics numbers here, Obama versus McCain. And it's actually pretty close still in most polls. I know the Newsweek poll showed things a little bit wider. But my question to you is, if Obama has this transformative ideology and outlook, why wouldn't it be even bigger now, that difference between Obama and McCain, if McCain is so yesterday?

SEN. DURBIN: You know, most of us who are consumed with politics think all of America is consumed with politics. But most Americans are struggling with high gasoline prices and worries about health care and what to do with the kids this summer. You know, there will be a time for a political season, and folks aren't as tuned in now as they will be come September and October. Once they are tuned in and hear Barack Obama's message loud and clear, I think they'll realize that he's the option for change.

MS. INGRAHAM: Well, getting on that change point again, Senator Durbin, again, the candidate of change, he's going to be a new type of Democrat, he's going to turn the page. What issue can you point to of domestic or foreign policy where Barack Obama disagrees with, let's say, John Kerry and his view in 2004 or even Senator Ted Kennedy?

SEN. DURBIN: The contest is between John McCain and Barack Obama, and the differences are very stark. Senator Obama believes, as I do, that it's time to bring this war in Iraq to a responsible conclusion, bring our troops home to the heroes welcome that they deserve and really fight terrorism more effectively. Unfortunately, under the Bush approach which John McCain supports, Osama bin Laden is still on the loose. Al Qaeda is growing in strength. And the Taliban is still a threat in Afghanistan.

We also need to engage the world in a worldwide effort against terrorism. The approach that was used by President Bush and supported by John McCain unfortunately will continue, this go-it-alone approach. That isn't going to be successful. So on the first issue of national security, there's a clear difference.

MS. INGRAHAM: Right. We're going to get to that national security discussion in the next block. And we have great, great points to make there. But on this point of being a new Democrat, I still am stuck on this question of how Barack Obama is going to change the direction of the party, change it from where John Kerry was, even change it from where Bill Clinton was. On what specific policies is Barack Obama going to lead the Democratic Party into this transformative direction?

SEN. DURBIN: Well, I think a lot of commentators are looking back and comparing Barack Obama to Jimmy Carter and other candidates of the past. We're looking forward. And as we look forward, we clearly understand that America needs an energy policy. John McCain's approach on this is the same as George Bush's approach on it. When it comes to Barack Obama's approach, it's to lessen our dependence on foreign oil by developing renewable, sustainable sources of energy in this country to grow our economy, to be sensitive to the reality of global warming and what carbon pollution is doing to this planet that we live on. Unfortunately, John McCain's position is a little hard to follow on this.

MS. INGRAHAM: Senator Durbin, you know, of course, that Senator McCain and President Bush disagree on some fundamental issues about energy. President Bush is in favor of drilling in ANWR. John McCain is against drilling in ANWR. And I know you're a man who watches the polls, you look at the polls, different polls. And people are obviously now increasing their support for offshore drilling and domestic oil exploration. Those numbers are stark right now. The people want us to find domestic energy sources. And I mean, I don't know where the Democrats are going to go on that issue. And I frankly don't know where John McCain's going to go on that issue.

SEN. DURBIN: Well, I can tell you that American consumers are anxious for us to do something about energy after what's happened, after the last seven and a half years under the Bush administration where we've seen gasoline prices rise dramatically and a burden on families and businesses they never could have envisioned. Take a look at Barack Obama's approach to this is one that I think is much more sensible, dealing with speculation which is adding to the price of a barrel of oil, dealing with the issues of windfall profits by oil companies reporting record profits.

MS. INGRAHAM: Yeah, but that's old, Senator Durbin. I mean, with all due respect. I mean, windfall profits taxes is Jimmy Carter and now saying that we're going to tell the free market, though -- no, but you're talking about George Bush. You're saying you want to talk about the future. I'm talking about McCain versus Obama. You're going back to Bush. Bush isn't running in November, as much as I think you guys want him to be running.

But let's move on to this other point of you say, you know, the country wants change, so forth. For the last two years, we've had Democrats in the majority. You guys, you know, came in with a flourish and Dianne Feinstein and all the senators were all excited about this change. And the ratings that the American people are giving Congress are abysmal two years into this. What does that say about the Democrats' leadership?

SEN. DURBIN: Well, I can tell you that the Senate is, of course, 51 to 49. And because of a record number of filibusters, the Republicans have stopped us from doing many things that we wanted to do to move this country forward. That's a reality that we hope will change in November with more Democratic senators. But if you follow through with the same question about Congress and ask people if they want to return to the days of a Republican Congress, they say overwhelmingly by 15 percent or more they do not. They want a Democratic-led Congress in the next year with the new president. And I think it's an indication that they want to have a team effort to try to bring this nation forward.

MS. INGRAHAM: Well, Senator Durbin, you're not going to get me to defend much of what the Republican Party has been doing. So I appreciate that point. But we're going to stay with this.

Up next, has President Bush put America in greater danger? Some people are saying that, most of them are on the Democratic side of the aisle. A lot more to get to here on "Just In." Stay with us.

(Announcements.)

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-I): (From videotape.) They've got to explain why we are now entering our sixth year of war in Iraq. We were supposed to be going over there for weapons of mass destruction that we never found. We were told that it was going to last a few months and cost a few billion dollars. We have now spent over $600 billion, thousands of lives lost, and we have not been made --

MS. INGRAHAM: And this just in, if things are improving in Iraq, why hasn't the new reached Barack Obama? And has President Bush's foreign policy made us safer or actually put us in greater danger. We now continue with Senator Dick Durbin, an adviser to the Obama campaign.

And Senator Durbin, I know you and I might not agree on a lot, but I know we both want America to be safe and secure and have that national security. Why hasn't, do you think, America been attacked in the last seven years? Why haven't we been hit?

SEN. DURBIN: I think we've done some good things.

I think our law enforcement and efforts at intelligence are good and have helped to keep America safe. But if you take a step back and take a look at it, you have to wonder, is al Qaeda weaker or stronger than it was on 9/11? Well, it's stronger, sadly. The Taliban forces routed from Afghanistan, are they now stronger or weaker? Sadly, they appear to be stronger and threatening the stability of Afghanistan. Osama bin Laden, still on the loose. Do we have the kind of global coalition that we want to fight terrorism? Unfortunately, we don't.

So there are many things we can do to improve the situation and make America even safer.

MS. INGRAHAM: Well, and index after index actually shows that al Qaeda has been absolutely decimated across the globe and obviously still very dangerous. We still have to deal with them. But whether we're talking about the situation in Mosul, Senator Durbin, situation in Basra or the overall security situation in Iraq, there's no doubt about it that things are improving. So it seems that the Democrats always have trouble embracing the good news. And at some point, I think the good news catches up with the narrative that a lot of Democrats have, which is it's all a disaster. I mean, is it all going to turn, you know, great on January 20th?

SEN. DURBIN: I can just tell you, the really good news is when American troops start coming home from Iraq. If the surge is really working, if the Iraqis are really taking responsibility for their own country, if they're willing to spend their own oil revenues in building their country -- (audio difficulties) -- stop sending hard- earned American tax dollars over to Iraq to build schools when we should be building them here. Why can't we spend more money here on health care, on energy policy instead of investing it in Iraq? To say that this has been a success and the troops can't come home is a pretty hard thing to explain.

MS. INGRAHAM: Do you think that the Bush administration has been more aggressive in going after terrorists, or the Clinton administration?

SEN. DURBIN: Well, it's certainly a different challenge. I mean, when you look at the efforts -- and of course, under President Clinton, there was an effort to take out Osama bin Laden. It wasn't that successful. And under George Bush, you'd have to say that terrorism, at least its ranks, have grown. Al Qaeda, you're saying, is weaker. But by every measure when I was a member of the Intelligence Committee, a group that was very limited and very specific in one region has now become a global force. That is a harsh reality that the next president will have to deal with.

So I don't discount the fact that we are fortunate and blessed in this country not to have been attacked again since 9/11. But for those who think that we're living in a safer world today, just look around. One hundred and sixty thousand American troops risking their lives as you and I are in the comfort and safety of this interview.

MS. INGRAHAM: Right. But they're risking their lives for our security. And you admitted at the beginning of this segment that, you know, we haven't had an attack on American soil. And during the Clinton years, we had Khobar Towers, we had, of course, our embassies hit in Kenya and Tanzania. And as far as I can tell, all we did -- we had the USS Cole -- and all we did was blow up an aspirin factory. So hasn't President Bush been pretty aggressive in going after terrorists compared to the Democratic administration?

SEN. DURBIN: So let me ask you a question. Which one of those terrorist attacks was initiated by Saddam Hussein of Iraq? And the answer is none of them. We ended up attacking the wrong country. Instead of going after the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan --

MS. INGRAHAM: Well, we're doing that.

SEN. DURBIN: -- we've devoted the resources of this country to the wrong site, the wrong battle. And we're still paying a heavy price for it.

MS. INGRAHAM: Right. But Senator, you think it's a good idea, do you not, that in those two volatile areas of the world, Iraq and Afghanistan, we now at least have the chance at real, stable, governing bodies and we have a fledgling democracy? That's a good thing, right?

SEN. DURBIN: Fledgling democracy, well, I think that's a stretch. I think that there is a stability that we're still looking for in Iraq. And if it were there, our troops would be coming home. All this argument about our success in Iraq, when I see troops coming home and National Guard units not being deployed from my state, then we can say it's a success.

MS. INGRAHAM: So nothing that's happened -- Mosul, Basra, the Basra initiative, oil-sharing revenues, the provincial governments -- none of that adds up to much positive news for you?

SEN. DURBIN: Positive as it may be, the bottom-line argument is whether or not they can stand on their own, whether they can defend their own country, whether they can govern themselves and use their own resources instead of tapping into the American treasury for $15 billion a month that we send into Iraq, a country that has a $30 billion surplus in its treasury from oil revenues. Why do we continue to do this if this is such a success story?

MS. INGRAHAM: Well, I think it needs some times, as all good things do. But Senator Durbin, I heard that you're on the short list for secretary of State for Obama. Is that right? That's pretty exciting.

SEN. DURBIN: I'm not that tall, it's true. (Laughs.) But I would say that my ambition is to be the senator from Illinois. I enjoy this job.

MS. INGRAHAM: All right. Well, we appreciate it very much. Thank you, Senator Durbin.

SEN. DURBIN: Thank you, too.

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