CNN Judy Woodruff's Inside Politics - Transcript

CNN

SHOW: JUDY WOODRUFF'S INSIDE POLITICS

HEADLINE: Bush in Britain: Pomp and Protests; Rx for Medicare: The PR Battle; Interview With Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham

GUESTS: Spencer Abraham, Rahm Emanuel, Mark Foley, Jodi Wilgoren, Ron Wyden

BYLINE: Judy Woodruff, John King, Jonathan Karl

WOODRUFF: Welcome back. As we reported earlier, the Senate is debating a bill overhauling U.S. energy policy for the first time in a decade. The Republican-backed bill passed the House yesterday, despite Democratic claims that it is a giveaway to the energy industry.

We heard the Bush administration's perspective from energy Secretary Spencer Abraham just a short time ago on INSIDE POLITICS. Now Democratic Senator Ron Wyden joins me from Capitol Hill.

Senator, I know that you and some other Democrats are concerned. But let's talk about what's positive in this bill for Democrats. You and Democratic colleagues who are saying it will boost research on renewable energy, that's it's going to increase the use of ethanol in gasoline, that it does away with a whole drilling in Anwar, the arctic wild life preserve. Why not accept the compromise in this bill rather than reject what you don't like?

SEN. RON WYDEN (D), OREGON: Well it takes some baby steps in the right direction. But it's sort of like putting a four-inch dam over the mighty Columbia River. You're just going to get flooded.

And here's the problem, Judy, what could have been a declaration of energy independence in our view, is a new low in special interest politics. This is a bad bill. It's really a polluter's payday. And I think tonight we are very close to having the votes to actually bring this bill down in the United States Senate.

WOODRUFF: Well I'm surprised to hear you say that, because the majority leader, your colleague, Tom Daschle was quoted as saying-I mean, he has concerns, but he said the opportunities that we have for renewable energy in this legislation, he said, offsets to a certain extent the many liabilities in the bill. That doesn't sound like he's going to be with you on a filibuster.

WYDEN: Well, every senator, of course, is free to make their own choice. But I think we have upwards of about 30 Democratic United States senators and the vicinity of six or eight Republicans that are hard votes already. We're picking up support all the time.

And for example, when you look at the area you just mentioned, on a 5-1 basis, there are more subsidies for the powerful special interests, for example, the oil and gas lobbies, than there are for dollars for renewable energy such as solar and wind.

This bill doesn't pass the smell test. It's really right out of 20th Century casting, just subsidizes all these very well-connected interests to really do what they're already doing which has contributed to the mess we're in.

WOODRUFF: But doesn't it also have provisions that address what caused the blackout in the Northeast and Midwest this past summer? It includes guidelines, mandatory guidelines that would theoretically prevent another blackout from happening? How can you oppose something like that?

WYDEN: Again, though, those steps are so modest and there are loopholes everywhere. For example, we've had problems in the Pacific Northwest as a result of market manipulation stemming from Enron. Virtually all of those practices are being given the green light under this legislation.

I think what's happened in the last day or so is senators have looked at this legislation and seen all the special interest goodies. It's just not passing the smell test.

For example, one provision that concerns me and many others is it actually relaxes the export controls on highly enriched uranium, which will be a big plus for terrorists.

WOODRUFF: But, again, let me go back to my original question. If you can get some of what you want right now, why not get that and work to improve this in the next-in the coming year?

WYDEN: Democrats are not for doing nothing. We want to move forward and do the job right. But to go backward, for example, with respect to environmental standards, I mean, this legislation is a huge step backward in terms of environmental standards, with respect to the use of tax dollars.

We're not going to see $25 billion come along for an energy bill very often. And I just don't think you can fritter it away on subsidizing all of the people who helped to contribute to the problems we face today.

We are more dependent on foreign oil now. I happen to think that the dipstick of a good bill is whether we shake free of our dependence on foreign oil. This legislation is more than a few quarts low.

WOODRUFF: But with division among the Democrats, aren't you going to have problems defeating it?

WYDEN: We are picking up support by the hour. If you had asked me two days ago, Judy, if we had been close on a filibuster, I would have said no way. In the last day or so, we are very, very close to having 40 votes to bring down this bill. Democrats are not for doing nothing. We'll have another year in this Congress to do the job right.

That's where I think we ought to go and we ought to do it on a bipartisan basis.

WOODRUFF: All right. Senator Ron Wyden, we're going to have to leave it there.

WYDEN: Thank you.

WOODRUFF: Ron Wyden of Oregon. Good to have you talk to us today. We appreciate it.

WYDEN: Thank you.